Inside EWA: Client Case Studies

Speaker 1 – 00:00
Welcome to EWA’s FinLit podcast. EWA is a fee only RIA based out of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. We hope all listeners
of this podcast will beneft as we deep dive into complex fnancial topics that we will make simplifed for you. And
we hope that this really serves as a catalyst so that you can make the best fnancial planning decisions for your
family and also save time.
Speaker 2 – 00:28
Welcome to another episode of FinLit by Ewa. Today we’re going to be covering a recent client case study that we’ve
come across a newer client that we’ve had the opportunity of bringing on into the frm. We’ve talked about a
spectrum or a continuum of our clients and we tend to hover on kind of on the either ends of the spectrum where we
have older clients, very high net worth and younger clients, high income and just kind of getting started on their
fnancial journey. This particular case is more on the, on the one end where they’re in a really great situation
fnancially, they’re high income earners, but they do have a lot of assets and the question is how do they structure
both their portfolio and their lives to reach their goals?
Speaker 2 – 01:15
So I’m here with Jamison Smith, a lead advisor on the team and we’re going to be covering their situation, how we
approached it, how we uncovered their goals and some of our recommendations to again help them reach their
dreams. Okay Jameson, fairly quickly if you can just provide a high level overview of their situation, who they are,
both fnancially and both as well as in their life.
Speaker 3 – 01:37
Yeah, yeah. Just to piggyback on some of what you said, I would say this is more. A lot of our new clients are in this
range. So you know, let’s call it 3 to 10 million in net worth in their 50s, 60s. And then again we also have people that,
which we can get even more perspective on. We have people in their 70s that are worth, you know, 10, 20, 50 million.
So kind of just giving that perspective to all these different age groups and life stages is super helpful and impactful.
But to lay of the land for them, again believe one spouse is late forties, one’s early ffties, so let’s call it early ffties,
about a four and a half million dollar net worth. Some of that’s in real estate.
Speaker 3 – 02:20
So investable assets I believe was like 3,3 million of just like you know, assets to, to manage, invest what’s actually
liquid. And so their situation, very high income earners, one’s executive at a tech company, total household income I
believe is like you know, seven 800,000 plus some bonuses in stock could be upwards, closer to a million depending
on the year. They have one kid that is under the age of 10 and they had previously worked with a fnancial advisor for
a long time. And so we hear this a lot. And a lot of times when I’m talking to new cli, when we’re talking to new
clients, I think it can become like you can get some, get a roadblock of. Well, they already have an advisor, they’re
taking care of these people of all this money.
Speaker 3 – 03:06
And what we fnalize is just so far from true. They’ve had an advisor, the advisor has done, I would say, a very good
job of investment management. Managed the assets really well, but the fnancial planning was a little bit lacking as
far as tax strategies, estate planning strategies, all of this stuff. So for them, again, call four and a half million dollar
net worth the big thing. They really didn’t know if they were on track or off track. They felt like a lot of people that get
to this situation, they’ve done the things to earn a high income and to accumulate a high net worth, they’ve saved a
lot of money. They probably live below their means. And so what we really don’t want is to never have these
realizations.
Speaker 3 – 03:49
And they get 10, 20 years down the road, 10, 20 million dollar net worth, they’ve never spent any of it and then their
health goes and they never get to enjoy their wealth. So that’s kind of the philosophy around a lot of this. But Devin,
what would you say there’s. And we’ll talk about where the assets are and how they’re broken up. Would you say their
primary goals were.
Speaker 2 – 04:06
Yeah, so to kind of piggyback on what you said earlier is that they, this is, we see this a lot where people are earning
a bunch of money. They’ve been working for 20 to 30 years, they’ve been saving a ton, but they’re living well below
their means. Right. And not to disparage any other fnancial advisors or wealth managers out there, but investment
management. Investment management is obviously quite important, but sometimes it just comes down to
understanding what you can spend to live your life today. So, so that you don’t wake up at age 75 or 85 with far more
money that you could ever spend or even give away. So that’s what we kind of, that’s one aspect of fnancial
planning, including the investment management. So anyways, in terms of their goals, I think that was a big one.
Speaker 2 – 04:46
So really the overarching theme with our Discussions with them was, where are we fnancially? Are we okay, when
can we reach fnancial independence and kind of what can we do with our cash fow in the meantime? And some of
the goals that they had off top of my head were purchase a new car, an inexpensive fancy car, potentially buy a
vacation home, for example. They really didn’t know if that was something that they could or could not do. So we
helped them with that. We’ll get to that in a second. Additionally, they wanted to pay for college in full for their
daughter. And then I believe fnancial dependence was somewhere in the mid-60s for the one spouse and mid-50s
for the other spouse. So reach fnancial independence for them on kind of, you know, separate timelines.
Speaker 3 – 05:31
Yep, yeah, I think that’s. Well, and to summarize, it was, yeah, fnancial independence. One spouse probably would
work into the 60s, other spouse wants to retire in the next couple years. Education for their daughter and then a
couple bigger purchases, vacation house, buying a car. And then also just I think a big important thing for them was
again, daughters under 10 years old, so maximizing the time now, traveling experiences, spending money on that
while they can and knowing how much they can spend reasonably to do that. Okay, well, let’s talk frst. Let’s just go
through state of the current balance sheet. So again, they worked with an advisor, a lot of cash building up. High
income earners live below their means, weren’t really doing a ton with their extra money.
Speaker 3 – 06:18
So called a couple hundred grand in cash between taxable investment accounts called a million bucks. And then
they had some miscellaneous stock from a previous employer, call it 400,000 in just a company, concentrated
company stock. That was a big question is what do we do with this? About 150 grand in a 529 plan and then across
retirement accounts, about a million bucks in an old IRA that was from an old employer pre tax and then between
current employers called about 500,000. Part of that’s in a pension plan. And they also had a miscellaneous or 2
miscellaneous variable life insurance policies which we’ll hit on, but kind of spread out this very common, you know,
got a million and a half pre tax, not really any Roth money, and then a lot in a taxable account. Anything to add there?
Speaker 2 – 07:11
Yeah, we see this a lot. Where I liken it to whenever you move into a new house, especially maybe after you have
kids, and you’ll notice over the years, over the decade, you just build up stuff and it either go, you shove it into the
attic or shove it into the basement. You don’t really think about it until it comes time to move. And we see this. So, so
in this case they moved, they changed advisor. So we get a new look at their balance sheet and we realize there’s a
lot of cleaning up that we can do here.
Speaker 2 – 07:34
And that’s again, we’ll talk about this more, but this is a lot of what we did in terms of the recommendations and part
of their fnancial plan just to really just kind of clean it up, consolidate it and make things more clear and
understanding for them. Because unlike us, most people aren’t fnancial professionals and can read a balance sheet
like that. It can be confusing. And sometimes that confusion and that lack of wherewithal leads people to just throw
their hands up in the air and not really create a plan.
Speaker 3 – 08:00
Yeah, yeah, exactly. So the frst thing we talked about was before we get into the fnancial independence, which is
college, they just been stocking money away in a 529. They want to be able to fund a. They live in the state of
California. So a state school in California is far less expensive than other areas of the country. So you know, they
may pay 10 to 15 grand a year, could be even cheaper. We estimated just a Standard Public School, 25,000 a year.
With that, with infation, maybe they need about 200 grand for public school. And then we also ran the numbers for
private school at 75,000 a year, call that 550,000. So anywhere between 200 to 550 for college. Already have almost
150 in the 529.
Speaker 3 – 08:45
529 is going to be on track to have about 300 grand when the kid gets to college. So when we show them this,
they’re like, okay, you know, we’re behind. And it’s like, well we explained how 529s are taxed and they had no idea.
And they said, you know, if you put all the money in accumulates tax free, use it for college, you don’t pay any taxes
for qualifying education expense. If you don’t use it for college, basis comes out pay taxes on the growth your
income rate plus a 10% penalty. They had no idea how that worked. So when they saw that, they said, well, we
probably don’t want to over accumulate in a 529. So we said exactly what we’d recommend. No, no more 529
savings. Again, let’s round up, say we need 600 for a private school, for college.
Speaker 3 – 09:26
We want half of that in the 529. What’s in there is going to grow to about 300. We’re good. We’re going to start
saving 1,000amonth into just a taxable investment account earmarked for college. That gives fexibility, high
likelihood. Half of it’s needed for college. If the other half’s not, they have that fexibility to use it for whatever they
want to. If it is needed for college, obviously you can use it. So frst recommendation which is really eye opening to
them was no more 529 funding right now. Put it into a brokerage account and then down the road, let’s say a couple
years from now, they decide they want to do private high school or college. The kid wants to go to an Ivy League
school. We can always put more money in the 529 later.
Speaker 3 – 09:58
But we don’t want to run that risk of over accumulating. So anything to add on college?
Speaker 2 – 10:03
No, it’s just interesting that you know, most people run the risk of under accumulating for their children’s college
savings and they’re in the opposite situation. So they’re going to have plenty of money. The, the risk is that they give
too much of it to the government in the form of taxes. So yeah, we’re going to help allay those risks.
Speaker 3 – 10:19
Yeah. So when we looked at fnancial independence, they could make no changes. And again let’s say they have
about 30amonth coming in. More with bonus and everything, but just from a standard cash fow standpoint,
30amonth coming in. They’re spending between 10 to 15. We told them 15 just to make sure they’re intentionally
spending more money. So 30 is coming in, 15 is being spent. 1515 left over. If we just saved that and kept saving
into the pre tax retirement accounts didn’t do any Roth planning. They were on track for fnancial independence.
Their goals were already on track. Financial independence. They could retire. I believe one spouse could retire at 60,
one could retire at 55. They could spend 15 to 20amonth. No issues there. Where we found a lot of opportunity was
just tax efciency.
Speaker 3 – 11:02
So what we recommended when we did some digging, One spouse has 403 in pension, fipped his 403 to Roth
contributions because right now all their money’s in a pre tax environment. Plus they’re gonna have a pension, Social
Security, they’re gonna have a lot of a signifcant amount of income for retirement already. I believe the pension,
Social Security paying like 10amonth after taxes. So we don’t want everything to come out of a taxed account in
retirement because your Medicare surcharge could go up, you’re gonna get bumped up in tax brackets. Who knows
what taxes will be in the Future. Switch the 403 to Roth funding. When we did some digging with the other spouse’s
401k, they’re able to do what’s called a mega backdoor Roth. So 23,000 that she’s under 50.
Speaker 3 – 11:47
So 23,000 into Roth, 401k, get the employer match, make the difference up to 69,000 in Roth. So just doing that
alone is going to drop cash for a little bit to about 26,000amonth. But now we’re maximizing all of these, all these
Roth accounts. Next question is backdoor Roth and Roth conversion. So the one spouse doesn’t have an IRA, 8,000 a
year, he’s over 50 into the backdoor Roth, about a million bucks in a pre tax IRA for the other spouse. And we can get
fairly granular with this, but we’re gonna, they had some, they had a donor advised fund that had about $10,000 and
they hadn’t really done anything with. They have a bunch of appreciated stock from this previous employer.
Speaker 3 – 12:28
So what we’re gonna do is take an amount of that stock, donate it to a donor advised fund, take the tax deduction
plus avoid capital gains taxes and then we’re going to take that same amount and convert it to Roth this year. And
that Roth conversion is going to be no tax consequence because we’ve decreased the income with the donor
advised fund. So that’s a huge tax savings. Helps them with their charitable aspirations, have a nice nest egg and a
charitable account. Plus we’re getting money into Roth for tax free growth. So those are kind of high level, just tax
strategies for retirement planning. Anything to add Devin, not necessarily from.
Speaker 2 – 13:00
A technical perspective, but just to kind of reiterate is they have goals and these tax strategies help them reach
those goals even quicker than they could have imagined. So it might sound esoteric and wonky, but in reality all this
really means is that they’re able to hit the fnancial independence goals sooner than they thought.
Speaker 3 – 13:17
So yeah, and one of the big things for them was just realization of like we broke this down to them again, they’re
spending probably 10 to 12 months, we show them spending 15, some more than they’re used to. And one of the
direct comments from one of the spouses was, wow, I can buy takeout tonight, I can buy the clothes I want. And you
never think that people with a signifcant net worth would have those thoughts But a lot of times people just don’t
know what they can and can’t spend. Are they on track or off track? And showing them that, hey, you’re on track to be
able to retire in the next fve years, whether you choose to or not. Like, legacy is not the most important thing. They
want to leave some money to their daughter, but the main thing was education.
Speaker 3 – 13:55
They don’t need a huge nest egg left. So it’s like, hey, let’s intentionally spend some of this money and enjoy life
you’re living now. Which will piggyback into now the vacation house and the car purchase.
Speaker 2 – 14:05
Yep, yep, exactly.
Speaker 3 – 14:08
So for one spouse his whole life wanted to buy like $150,000 sports car. Never thought. He thought it would just be a
bad decision. And when we modeled it out, has zero impact on their plan. You can buy it next year. Doesn’t impact
any of their goals. It’s not like they wanted to retire tomorrow anyway. So it literally doesn’t matter. So that gave them
peace of mind. Well, we can make this purchase. Doesn’t matter for our goals. And then the second decision was
around a vacation house. And we got into running the numbers. A lot of times what we fnd is when you look at the
carrying cost of vacation house, they may not even want to buy it when they’re in their 50s because they feel stuck to
travel there.
Speaker 3 – 14:45
So when modeled out, they could buy a $2 million house with a $500,000 down payment. No impact on their
retirement goals or education goals. But one of the realizations was, well, maybe we wouldn’t buy this house until
later in life because we would actually travel there often. We won’t be able to travel to different destinations the next
like 10 or 15 years. But really it’s giving them peace of mind that they could make all those decisions. Decisions
freely. And it’s within the boundaries of their fnancial plan.
Speaker 2 – 15:11
Yep, yep. For sure. Okay. Maybe switching over to some of the more. Some of the more sophisticated planning that
we did in regards to trust and estate.
Speaker 3 – 15:27
Yeah.
Speaker 2 – 15:28
So if you can kind of quickly overview what was going on with us scenarios and how we. What. What
recommendations we made.
Speaker 3 – 15:35
Yeah. So let me before this will kind of play into that. So they have stock from an old employer. And one of their big
questions, what do we do with this from a tax standpoint? How do we diversify out? And there really wasn’t some of
it’s going to go to the donor advice fund, the low basis stock. But then the rest of it basically just strategically
Diversifying out, using losses in the taxable account to offset some of the gains. But it was pretty much a
conversation around are you emotionally invested to the this company at all? Answer was no. So what are you
holding on for it for? And they said we really don’t have a reason, we just didn’t really know how to sell it. So helping
them liquidate that because there’s no emotional ties, just properly diversify into a different portfolio.
Speaker 3 – 16:16
But as far as the estate planning, outside of that stock, a previous company had got purchased by a private equity
frm. So they transferred the stock into new private equity stock. That the goal of the company? Actually I think it’s
the company she’s working at is within the next fve years to have a sell, they would sell to another private equity
company. They could ipo, they could sell to a big tech company, all these options. But this stock could hit big. And so
looking at their fnancial picture, based on continuing to work another 10 years, living below their means and their
spending, most likely they’re going to be at a place again. We’re speculating on future estate taxes, but my
professional opinions are probably going to be lower in the future. So right now 26 million between each spouse
roughly can pass tax free.
Speaker 3 – 17:08
Anything above that 40% federal state tax going to drop, get cut in half after next year could drop even further. So
assuming they’re probably be over that if the estate tax drops, this private equity stock, I believe the basis on all of it
is worth it’s about 100,000 right now. And it gets granted over this year and next year, but it’s about $100,000
purchase price for these stock options. And if it hits, it could be like a million or 2 million dollar asset based on their
fnancial picture. Wouldn’t even model any of that in knowing they’re good to hit education goals, retirement goals,
buy the house, buy the car. This money really it matters from a standpoint of obviously you want it to hit, you want
the money. But from a fnancial planning standpoint it doesn’t impact their plan.
Speaker 3 – 17:54
So one strategy we’re going to implement is taking that money and having a trust own the stock. So what that does
is the cost of it now, which is about 100 grand. We can get into the trust with gifting exemptions again could spread
out over a couple years. So they could gift it into the trust under the gifting exemption, not use any of their estate
exemption. And now what happens is the trust owns these and it’s A spousal life access trust. So each spouse has a
trust, they have access to it because the spouse is the trustee. But if this thing hits to 2 million bucks, it’s all owned
in the trust. So it’s outside of the estate. It’s an irrevocable trust. And none of that money is subject to the 40%
federal estate tax.
Speaker 3 – 18:36
So we’re going to discuss do we put it all in, do we put half in? You know, do you maybe want to use it? But that’s one
really nuanced strategy that could end up saving them, you know, 40% state tax, about 800 grand on estate taxes,
which could be huge.
Speaker 2 – 18:51
Yeah. And again, just to the point where kind of optimizing the tax situation will allow them to reach their goals,
whatever they are in kind of ahead of schedule typically.
Speaker 3 – 19:02
Sure. And then they had already had estate documents drafted which were, were just done last year. They were
good. How do you revocable trusts, wills, powers of attorney, guardians, all that stuff. We kept just adding on a new
trust, two new trust documents for the slats to own, the private equity investment.
Speaker 2 – 19:21
What about their life insurance policies that they had on hand whenever they approached us? And what about our,
what were our recommendations to kind of clean that up?
Speaker 3 – 19:29
Yeah, this is a great question. So again, early 50s, young kid, they need life insurance just from a standpoint of, you
know, if something happens to one of them, especially the higher income earning spouse, that income’s not coming
in. Still have to pay a mortgage, still have to save, still have to fund education. One spouse had two and a half million
of term insurance. We were okay with keeping that’s adequate. Other spouse had two variable non guaranteed life
insurance contracts. Two different companies, they were underwater. So meaning I think they had, let’s just say they
put in 50 grand and they’re worth 30. So we really looked at this. What purpose are these things serving in your
fnancial plan? Really? None. They don’t have an adequate death beneft. The spouse needs between like 3 to 5
million of total life insurance.
Speaker 3 – 20:17
I believe it was like 100,000, maybe 150,000 of death beneft. So that wasn’t adequate. And what we found with
these non guaranteed contracts is the fxed, the mortality and expense cost generally is not fxed if it’s not
guaranteed. So what that means is the cost of the insurance will continue to go up as you age. And if you’re not
funding enough money into it, a lot of times these are pitched that the premiums are fexible so you could decide to
not fund it for a couple years, which sounds great, but if you’re not funding enough money in the cash value is used
to pay the M and E cost and that could start to erode at the policy. So could have been a good thought process when
it was put in place. But a lot of issues with this current life insurance.
Speaker 3 – 20:59
So what we ended up doing, we did what’s called a. We transferred the life insurance into a variable annuity at
Fidelity. And what that does, if there’s a $30,000amount and the basis is 50, if we just cash that out and put it into a
investment account, they’re going to start paying taxes on that growth. We can put it into a Fidelity variable annuity.
The basis is now 30 or this 30,000, $50,000 basis because it’s a like insurance product. We can recoup all of that
back up to the $50,000 basis tax free and avoid taxes on that 20,000 of growth and then cash that out and transfer it
into a taxable investment account. So that’s the frst thing from a asset standpoint, how to maximize that. And then
we got new life insurance.
Speaker 3 – 21:43
One of the spouses to make sure she had $3 million of coverage in place. Anything to add there? Then we’ll talk
about whole life recommendations too.
Speaker 2 – 21:53
No, no, I think you covered it.
Speaker 3 – 21:55
Okay. So the frst purpose of life insurance, obviously make sure the death benefts in place. But a second use case,
you hear a lot of bad things and read a lot of bad things about life insurance. Which is, which is true. It’s oversold. I
would say 98% of the population should not own whole life insurance. You have these insurance companies and
agents running around selling them to everybody that are not a good ft. So there’s a lot of bad stuff out there. But for
them, a lot of this we have, you know, a lot of extra money being saved into a taxable account. Eventually they’re
going to have to start holding bonds as they get closer to retirement. We implemented two cash value life insurance
contracts we’re saving into. Has a permanent death beneft, has a long term care rider.
Speaker 3 – 22:37
They can use a death beneft tax free for long term care and has a cash value that’s going to build up tax deferred.
And if you look at the rate of return of these long term will be about 4 to 5%. So it’s a nice bond alternative for
somebody in this situation that has cash fow, has assets. We can save money inside of that contract for the tax
benefts and the safety net of potentially getting A higher rate of return than bonds and it’s much more tax efcient
than holding that in a taxable investment account.
Speaker 2 – 23:07
So if I may kind of summarize fairly quickly from a portfolio perspective, we’ve both optimized the upside via, you
know, by utilizing our investment principles, primarily asset location and asset allocation. But also we’ve capped the
downside, for example, by utilizing whole life insurance, which again gets a bad rap. And it’s probably not appropriate
for the vast majority of the population. But in this case for this couple, it made sense both from a portfolio
perspective, but also a high level of kind of fnancial planning and peace of mind perspective.
Speaker 3 – 23:42
Yeah, and I think this is a good conversation too. So as someone’s entering retirement, in their case, let’s say they
have 10amonth coming in. Pension, Social Security, 10amonth, if they’re spending 20 is going to be drawn from their
portfolio. So it’s 120,000 a year. And we want, when they get to retirement, seven years of that in something safe,
cash, bonds, cash value. So 120 times 7 is 8 something 848, 40. So when they get to retirement, we need, let’s round
up say a million bucks and something safe. We’re going to be positioned to have two to three years of that inside
these life insurance contracts. In the next 10 years we’re going to have about, call it 300,000 inside of these
contracts. That satisfes, you know, almost three years of spending. They can access whether the markets market.
Speaker 3 – 24:30
A lot of times stocks and bonds work inversely. So if stocks drop, people fee to safety and buy bonds, increasing the
price of bonds. 20, 22, really good example. Stocks were down double digits, bonds are down double digits. It’s an
uncommon year. But in a year like that we could tap into the life insurance and draw on that if they needed anything
and never have to sell stocks or bonds at a loss. And then when the stocks take a loan on life insurance, stocks go
up, use the stocks to pay off the life insurance. So it’s just another, I would say, safety net to add onto the balance
sheet of isolated or saving from sequence of returns risk and never having to sell anything at loss because we have
this safe cash growing.
Speaker 2 – 25:13
Yeah, that’s a great point and let me touch upon this quickly. But the concept of sequence of returns risk is that you
can retire with a certain amount of money and if the performance of that portfolio suffers in the early years, that can
derail your fnancial plan for the next two to three Decades just based on those early years of underperformance in
the portfolio. That is why that is a major reason why we recommend having seven years of safe assets to protect
our clients portfolios from that sequence of returns risks. And within that kind of safe bucket that can be like you
mentioned, cash, bonds, cash value, life insurance and things of that nature. So just to kind of recap that which.
Speaker 3 – 25:52
Yeah.
Speaker 2 – 25:53
Which I think is. Is exceptional.
Speaker 3 – 25:55
Yeah. Well, anything we missed here, I think that’s a pretty good overview of all the tactical planning and making sure
goals are on track. And once all this is implemented. Yeah. They were. Could retire at 55 if they wanted to. They’re
not going to One’s probably going to work into 60. So now it’s making sure that they, you know, spend their money on
the things they want and enjoy it how they want to in the years while they’re working while still saving for. For all
these goals. Yeah.
Speaker 2 – 26:19
And that was the overarching kind of problem we solved was just to kind of give them the peace of mind to. To order
Uber eats that night to understand that they are. Okay.
Speaker 3 – 26:28
Yeah.
Speaker 2 – 26:29
No, that means that might be funny because it’s a small thing, but some of their other goals that we kind of touched
upon were taking care of parents in the future. And we kind of. We made it clear that they were. They are able to do
that based on their plan and potentially in the future doing some charitable giving. So we kind of set, we set that up
as well. Do we want touch upon that the DAF at all or.
Speaker 3 – 26:48
Yeah, we did a little bit just taking appreciated stock, putting it in there, offsetting tax with the Roth conversion. And
that’ll be a year by year discussion based on income, Roth conversions, charitable amount. We got a sizable amount
in the donor advice fund. Should satisfy contributions the next few years at least. And then more Roth conversions
we may consider probably do a little bit each year, but could also be if one spouse stops working the next couple
years like they think that could be an opportunity incomes lower to accelerate Roth conversions this year when
there’s. There’s a higher income. Lower income.
Speaker 2 – 27:20
Yep, yep. Yeah. And then for the, you know, the charitable giving that was something that they had kind of on the
radar. But they again go back to the spending question. They didn’t know if they could. But based upon what we built
for them, we’ve kind of illustrated to them that they can give away 10, 20 times more than they thought. And to go
back to the point of it’s not just about how much money you have, it’s what you do with it in the meantime. This is
something that is important to them and they’re able to do it now. So yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3 – 27:49
Anything else that we missed and it’s a pretty good overview.
Speaker 2 – 27:53
Yeah, I think we’ve covered it. Maybe lastly, just, you know, what are some indications for, you know, a quite complex
situation like this when we look out? So I don’t know, three to fve years. Are there any metrics or indicators that we
track to measure success for them?
Speaker 3 – 28:09
Yeah, I mean obviously we want to make sure the investments are performing adequately and not underperforming a
bunch of benchmarks. But that’s table stakes in my opinion. It would be more so the wins would be are they, you
know, living a fulflling life that they want to are they spending on the things they want while making sure their goals
are on track or all these which the recommendations will be implemented because they’re working with us. We’re
very good about follow through and making sure it happens. But yeah, mainly just are they doing the things they
want and not holding back on any spending because they, you know, don’t know that they’re okay with be the main
indicator to watch.
Speaker 2 – 28:47
Yeah. Freedom and peace of mind.
Speaker 1 – 28:49
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