Why Financial Success Isn’t Always Stress-Free

Speaker 1 – 00:00
Welcome to EWA’s FinLit podcast. EWA is a fee only RIA based out of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. We hope all listeners
of this podcast will beneft as we deep dive into complex fnancial topics that we will make simplifed for you. And
we hope that this really serves as a catalyst so that you can make the best fnancial planning decisions for your
family and also save time. Welcome everybody. This week, excited to be joined by Devin and Jameson. This week’s
episode, we’re going to talk about the downsides of being rich, often not talked about, but and how to address them.
So a lot of our clients are, we’ve been mixed.
Speaker 1 – 00:44
We have clients, you know, that come to us that already have, you know, top 1 percenters, top 5 percenters as far as
wealth, which by the way I looked it up, it’s defned top 1% now in the United States, 13 million in net worth.
Speaker 2 – 00:54
Oh, really? That was like 7.
Speaker 1 – 00:55
Yeah, it went way up. Market’s hot. You know, I think, you know, but what’s 1% income?
Speaker 2 – 01:02
Million?
Speaker 1 – 01:03
Yeah, I think close to a million. No, that didn’t really move. I think it was like state by state, 750 to a million. Yeah. So
some clients are rich and some clients like they’ve created businesses and they’re newly rich. And so I think this will
be helpful for both those that are rich and like probably struggling with these and people that are newly rich. And I
think the important thing here is the word rich is the difference between rich and wealthy.
Speaker 2 – 01:29
I think rich is like, can be.
Speaker 1 – 01:31
Yeah, it’s like people see that you’re driving fancy cars and that’s often part of our advice is like, don’t do that
because wealth is what people don’t see. It’s like your brokerage account, which you shouldn’t be talking about here.
I have this balance in my brokerage account. No one’s going to see that. And so that’s going to represent, you know,
discipline, more privacy, et cetera. So yeah, let’s go through. So now I’d say, you know, not to have like double
standards here. We are by no means are rich in this room, but we work with a lot of rich clients. So I think we have
not necessarily personal, as much personal perspective, but tons of perspectives.
Speaker 1 – 02:07
We’ve, you know, I don’t know at this point, I’ve been probably 20,000 meetings with clients and so I see lots of
perspectives, lots of conversations behind closed doors among families, disagreements, breakthroughs, you know,
all those things that we have to navigate as part of a fnancial Planning being, you know, emotional beings that we
are. So yeah, who wants to start off, throw out, like what’s the biggest thing that you guys see? That’s a pretty big
surprise. Like a, a paradox. You have to manage as you accumulate wealth. And people see that.
Speaker 2 – 02:39
I would say like fnding your purpose, whether you have no money or a lot of money, that’s probably the biggest thing
that people struggle with because it’s, it never goes away and it never like it’s always there. So you could have
millions and millions of dollars. Actually, I have a good example too of a client just sold his business more money
than I’ll ever spend, literally has nothing to do all day and he’s kind of just like, what do I do? Yeah, what do I do?
Yeah. So that’s one just like having some sort of purpose and meaning. And a lot of your day, a.
Speaker 1 – 03:15
Lot of your purpose and your meaning probably came from. So if you’ve built a successful business at that point
where it’s like I don’t need to worry ever again about money, probably your purpose was heavily correlated. Friends
were in the business, were really close, kind of maybe a startup culture. And losing that, it’s like your whole identity is
lost. And so I would add the word identity. So fnding a purpose is extremely important and that purpose should be
part of your career path. Because we spend so much time in our careers, I would say you have to diversify your
purpose.
Speaker 1 – 03:44
Like outside of work, you also have to diversify your identity because if you don’t have anything to go to, frst of all,
you’re probably going to lose like a successful business owner is going to lose like 90% of their, if they sell their
business, it’s like, okay, we got cash now we’re going to lose 90% of our social life, which was through the company,
very common. And now we’re missing our purpose. So it can be just like a complete shock. And like money goes
way up, happiness goes way down. We see this. So common. So what do you guys think? Some solutions are around
this?
Speaker 2 – 04:10
I just say too, like, you know, it takes a certain personality type to be able to do that in the frst place. Very like hard
working, probably a little bit obsessive, probably a little bit, I guess, crazy, but in a good way.
Speaker 1 – 04:30
And so if you’re crazy, everything’s, I think everything’s on a scale, right?
Speaker 2 – 04:33
Yeah. So if you’re like, you know, if you’re throwing your life into that and you’re working long hours, you’re building a
business and you’re fnding your purpose in there in a healthy but unhealthy way. When that like suddenly goes away,
that’s like very hard especially for that type of individual, you know, with that personality trait. So what was your
question? Solutions? I would say. Well, I don’t know, there’s a lot of solutions.
Speaker 1 – 05:00
Yeah. How do you diversify your purpose? I would say diversify your investment portfolio at a lower risk. I think
diversifying your purpose, diversifying your identity lowers risk of balancing fnancial security.
Speaker 2 – 05:11
With also probably just not tying. Now we’re getting into some psychology here. Not tying your self worth to your
achievements and accomplishments. You know you’re gonna be feel you’re worthy without those things and without
the money, which is very hard to do.
Speaker 1 – 05:29
So again I would say, I mean we naturally have to play like not a therapist, just like kind of a coach. And like I think
where we come into plays we can give perspective because we’ve seen this countless times and we’ve seen people.
I would say my advice would be start to be very proactive about how you spend your time.
Speaker 2 – 05:48
Yeah.
Speaker 1 – 05:49
And if like I’m gonna get healthy after, we’ll get healthy now before you sell your business, like start diversifying your
time because those actions actually will increase the sale of your business because the more your business doesn’t
have to fow or operate around you, the more valuable it is. So actually like taking an hour or two for the gym and like
delegating that’s going to make your company more valuable and that’s going to start that process of I would say
starting other social groups, you know, whether that’s new hobbies, travel, etc, new charitable organizations. And I
would say very important is hire a, some kind of executive coach.
Speaker 2 – 06:33
Therapist.
Speaker 1 – 06:33
Therapist or you know, someone to guide you through the conversations of like what does life look like now? What
does life look after. Try to minimize regrets and you know, we only have one life and some decisions are reversible,
some are not. I think selling a business a lot of times is not. So it’s a big decision. I think you should spend the time
of self refection and work with a professional.
Speaker 2 – 06:52
Here’s a good action item. So here I personally I have a hard time sitting still, doing nothing. Like if I don’t have
anything, even in the evenings, like I can’t just sit on it. It’s very difcult for me to just sit on the couch. I want to be
like oh, wasting my time. I should be working. So same so Good takeaway. Someone gave me this advice, new for
me trying it is to schedule downtime. So, like, you know, instead of like, without intention, when you have nothing to
do, you kind of get decision fatigue. Should I relax? Should I work? Well, I’m just gonna put in my calendar an evening
where I’m taking two hours to have nothing scheduled and intentionally schedule downtime. So doing little things
like that can help diversify your time, I think.
Speaker 1 – 07:34
I haven’t really tried it yet, but schedule downtime. You haven’t tried it?
Speaker 2 – 07:37
No.
Speaker 1 – 07:38
What would you do during your downtime?
Speaker 2 – 07:40
It depends. I mean, well, I mean, like. Well, it’s hard now in the winter with all the snow. Like, my downtime, when it’s
nice out, is going to play around to golf. That’s a good way to unwind. But in the winter, I don’t know. I mean, read a
book, listen to a podcast, walk my dog, watch sports.
Speaker 1 – 07:57
But then you talked about, you may try snowboarding. Do you.
Speaker 2 – 08:00
Skiing maybe?
Speaker 1 – 08:01
Or skiing or snowboarding.
Speaker 2 – 08:02
Skiing. I would probably.
Speaker 1 – 08:04
What’s the. How many times Jameson would fall down the frst. Seven. Seven, seven hundred.
Speaker 2 – 08:08
I got this. This is the best. This is the best advice I got for somebody.
Speaker 3 – 08:12
It’s hard.
Speaker 2 – 08:13
So. So I have a friend that, you know, Division 1 basketball player, and he’s like, I just learned to ski two years ago. I
got on the skis and went down the hill and I’m like, well, if you did it, I’m sure I could. Could do that. I don’t need to
take a lesson. I don’t need to get taught. Best advice I got, if you go out on that ski slope and you tear your acl, just
think about how miserable you would be when you can’t get up and work out. You can’t have your routine. And I was
like, I would be a head case to be around. So anyway, to answer your question, I’m going to learn at some point, but
pretty obsessive and go all into things. So I’m just debating on when I want to, you know, make that choice.
Speaker 1 – 08:49
Yeah, you wouldn’t go into pickleball because you thought you’d get obsessed with it.
Speaker 2 – 08:51
Well, yeah, I’m focusing on my golf game right now, so I don’t want to, you know, I only have so much time and
attention and energy. Can’t really be good at so many things.
Speaker 1 – 09:00
Well, Devin, what do you. Anything to add here on the frst one? The. I. Do you agree with those. Anything to add as
far as, like, advice from, you know, friends or acquaintances that have gone through that process and like the
difference of someone that’s done the proper planning versus not as far as navigating through this.
Speaker 3 – 09:18
Yeah, yeah. A few thoughts, I guess. First, so we kind of talked a lot about business owners and coming into high
levels of net worth when you’re relatively young. So that’s kind of the obvious example. In fact, we’ve got a new client
now that’s about to come into, what, 20, 30 million bucks. He’s in his mid-30s. He’s playing a different game at that
point. He’s kind of part of the 1% that we’ve been talking about. But I think it also applies to folks, and I would say,
let’s call them upper middle class, that are going to retire with a couple million bucks in their 60s, and they’ve got 20,
25, 30 years without that kind of purpose, that identity.
Speaker 3 – 09:49
I think it’s this kind of asking that same question, and it’s like it’s going through the same kind of exercises that we
do all the time, whether you’re worth 2 million or 20 million. Right. So, yeah, in terms of fnding a purpose, I mean, I
don’t know if this is the easy one, but maybe the obvious one is philanthropy. I study and read a lot of history. The
classic example is Andrew Carnegie. I mean, he was the richest man in maybe the history of the world. He stops
working and he spends the next 25, 30 years of his life just giving away billions of dollars and the libraries and all
that. So that was how he found his purpose, depending on the person. But that’s probably the number one thing that
I would recommend clients and other folks look into.
Speaker 3 – 10:24
So starting a organization, a foundation, a D.A. Something like that. But again, depends on the person. But that
usually. I’d say more. More often than not, folks. Folks are amenable to that. So.
Speaker 1 – 10:34
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 – 10:34
All right.
Speaker 1 – 10:35
What, James, do you have anything to add before I go to the next one?
Speaker 2 – 10:37
No, I was just going to suggest the next one. Maybe we talk about just like the. How your social life changes.
Speaker 1 – 10:44
Yeah. Oh, you’re on my mind. Yeah, you’re. Yeah. So social life.
Speaker 2 – 10:48
So I have a neuralink in, so I can just.
Speaker 1 – 10:51
Oh, geez, Elon Musk stuff. Yes. I would say, you know, relationships. Relationships can change when there’s a big
jump income, a big jump in net worth. And this can happen with family, with close friends. So we see it very common
that, you know, when someone comes into a lot of net worth, whether it’s, you know, not giving an opinion on this but
just statistically a lot of times people fnd themselves in new social groups because it’s going to create, you know, a
lot of strain. So let’s talk about that. So what have you guys seen? And just any commentary and then let’s talk about
potential solutions to that.
Speaker 2 – 11:28
Yeah, I mean I think there’s a lot here. This is. People don’t talk about this a lot. Let’s just start frst. Like it becomes
difcult to relate to, you know, friends maybe you grew up with. And I would say a lot of the very successful people I
know are generally self made, meaning they didn’t come from a lot. So like their friends they grew up with probably
also didn’t come from a lot. And if you didn’t come from a lot and you’re self made, that’s a very small percentage of
people that do that. And so those people that you used to be close friends with, you’re not gonna be able to relate to.
They’re not gonna be able to relate to you. Not saying it’s not, it’s impossible to have a relationship with them. You
can certainly do it, but it’s very difcult.
Speaker 2 – 12:16
And I like to say you have 3 minute friends, 3 hour friends and 3 day friends. Explain that your 3 minute friends are
people that I guess maybe they’re not a friend. But like, you know, you see them, you catch up for a couple minutes,
you say hi. There’s not much more to it. Three hour friends. You know, I’m gonna go, I could have a dinner with them,
I could have a drink with them. Don’t really need to spend more than three hours with them. And then your three day
friends, your closest friends. I would go on a trip with this person, I’d spend three days with them.
Speaker 3 – 12:44
So never heard that you’re cool? No.
Speaker 2 – 12:46
Yeah. So you know, if you understand that it’s like you just have to know that some people are, maybe they were your
best friend as a child, but life happens. They’re three minute friends now.
Speaker 1 – 12:58
No, I like that too. I think, and I said I think your three day friends will probably. So your three minute friends will never
change maybe. And then your three day friends will have to evolve potentially. And we see this quite commonly with
like someone comes in a network, big net worth, they start paying for everything. Family, friends, now they’re buying,
you know, the beach vacation house for everybody. And that can cause a lot of strain because money is like, it’s very
difcult to manage with emotions because now like Maybe you’re paying the house for relatives or in laws, whatever
it is, and they don’t have as much money. It’s like, well, they’re thankful. But then is it now turn into an expectation?
Does it now turn into some kind of enabling?
Speaker 1 – 13:39
And it just, it’s very high probability of being misunderstood with the conversations or you know, what we refer to as
a suicide. Like you assume the worst about intentions and then there’s a very low probability of like having the same
experience that you did maybe 10 years ago on that same beach vacation. Things just change, the comments
change and the person paying for it. You know, obviously it was a big, a very generous thing. But you know, a couple
comments of like, oh, you make so much and then they kind of feel it’s like almost devalued. So other people. So it’s
just we’ve seen and not all the time. I mean that we have clients that have these dynamics and everything’s great.
But I’d say statistically it’s more often than not that super generosity can lead to more problems than good. Just as
a.
Speaker 1 – 14:30
I’m just evaluating a small sample size. When I read about this, I know this does exist broadly.
Speaker 2 – 14:36
You have friends that are, you’re, they’re friends with you for the wrong reasons. You may want to spend quality time
with them, but they’re just hanging out for the tickets to the football game or you know, going on a boat or whatever
it is.
Speaker 1 – 14:48
Yeah. Now it’s in your head where it’s like, are they with my friends? And it’s in their head because it’s like, oh man, I
wish I was this successor could do this. And I feel like. But demasculated. I feel disrespect. I mean it’s just high
probability. So what we fnd is that like there’s an artwork behind that of being generous without enabling. There’s an
artwork of, you know, keeping acquaintances but setting strong boundaries. And then I think there’s also an artwork
of, you know, fnding friends that maybe have your net worth and also share your values. Sometimes when people,
you know, focus so much on a commitment net worth, they, they get lost a little bit. You know, they get lost in their
values. They get lost in the philanthropy, philanthropic, you know, behavior, not behaviors focus in their life and they
like you.
Speaker 1 – 15:35
You mentioned certain personality traits. So I think this balanced approach is going to be those three day friends
have to be a high quality. Like you can share anything. You can be vulnerable in front of them. It’s not just like oh we
share the same net worth, cool, it’s going to cool vacation. It’s no like you trust those people with anything.
Speaker 2 – 15:51
I think too it becomes difcult like if you’re a lot of people that have a lot of money, they don’t have a lot of time and it
can be difcult if you’re you know, shedding friendships and getting new friends. It’s, it’s difcult to, it can be difcult
to build those three day friends because you don’t have a lot of time to spend with them. And they probably, if you’re
in people that are in the same ballpark as you, they’re, they don’t have a lot of time to spend. So that can be a
struggle too. You know, just fnding the time to build those types of relationships. Not impossible. Not you know, you
can do it. It’s just a little bit more difcult. Then the other thing I thought about when you’re talking is this one of my
biggest pet peeves personally.
Speaker 2 – 16:31
But people that only who like you were friends with you thought you’re friends with that only reach out to you when
they want something. Especially if you have money. And I’m not saying I have money but like if you do have money.
Speaker 1 – 16:43
Well no, he’s got money.
Speaker 2 – 16:44
It’s just if you do have money.
Speaker 1 – 16:47
In there at 20 something he’s got.
Speaker 3 – 16:49
It’S all, it’s all tied up in his Tesla. That’s why that’s his biggest asset right out there.
Speaker 1 – 16:55
Ever since everyone got Tesla here. I can’t even get a charging spot here at the ofce. Crazy.
Speaker 2 – 16:58
Yeah, well this cold weather just makes it brutal, you know?
Speaker 1 – 17:01
Yeah. 300 miles, it’s a lie.
Speaker 2 – 17:03
In the cold, in the warm it’s good but cold get 150 max.
Speaker 1 – 17:07
Thanks Elon. Yeah, no thank you. Because like I like the self driving. It’s amazing.
Speaker 2 – 17:11
That’s great anyways but so people hate Tesla drive.
Speaker 1 – 17:15
I’ve seen all I’m by the way I’m off social media that my, my happiness and mental like just presence is what like
skyrocketed.
Speaker 2 – 17:24
You gotta get this app. I have this app. I forget what it’s called but it’s on my phone and you set like so like I can’t get
on social media every single day from like 8 to 5 or something but I can’t change the settings. I had to put somebody
else’s email address on so like I literally can’t even go In.
Speaker 1 – 17:39
Can’t do it.
Speaker 2 – 17:39
Yeah, it’s great.
Speaker 3 – 17:40
What’s it called?
Speaker 2 – 17:41
It’s awesome.
Speaker 1 – 17:42
Focus. I didn’t have like that on my computer, but I just went full cold turkey. Like I now, you know, Logan, stay
focused. Yeah, I know I have that. I had that forever. But Logan is doing, you know, and it’s like mind blowing.
Speaker 2 – 17:56
But anyway, back to what I was saying. So you, when you have money, people will literally only reach out to you when
they want something or want money, want you to give money to something or like want you to buy something or
indirectly.
Speaker 1 – 18:07
They have an agenda. They have an agenda. And. Yeah.
Speaker 2 – 18:10
And that can be draining. Yeah, it’s terrible.
Speaker 1 – 18:14
Yeah. And that happens very often with your high net worth because like, and you’re generous and like it. You mean
well. And then it comes back and it backfres. Then you kind of have a bad attitude like, well, this is causing 10 times
more pain than the good. So anyways, Devin, we’re a big ft. Tim Ferriss fans, I think the solution to this one is what
he refers to as a past year in review. So break this down for us. How do you complete this and why would this be so
benefcial to address what we just talked about?
Speaker 3 – 18:37
Man, I haven’t listened to this from Tim in a while, but I get, I think the gist of it is just to look back on the year. I think
he does it. Does he do it quarterly? He does it annually. Okay. Honestly, I don’t remember.
Speaker 2 – 18:49
I just, I just, I. Did you look at your. You look at your calendar from last year?
Speaker 1 – 18:53
Yeah.
Speaker 2 – 18:54
And you look at everything you had. So business meetings, going to the gym, who you went to dinner with, what
activities you did. And I forget how he categorizes it, but it’s like whatever gives them energy and drains his energy or
something like that.
Speaker 1 – 19:06
Yeah, it’s peak. Peak experiences. You know, basically 80, 20. What are 80% of the experiences? But what are the 20
experiences that led to 80% of my awe, happiness or fulfllment? Fulfllment. And then the other 80% that only led to
20. It’s like shed those 80 and let’s double down the 20. Let’s schedule out those. Oh, there’s fve people I had most
amazing trip with, amazing dinner. I’m gonna double down and make sure I make those a priority by scheduling and
reaching out. And the other 80, it’s like most usually it’s the reactive. Like, I’m so busy.
Speaker 3 – 19:39
Which book was that in? Was that in four Hour Work Week? Oh, from the blog.
Speaker 2 – 19:42
What’s the. What were your biggest. What were your biggest time axes? That you’re just like, you know, screw this.
Speaker 3 – 19:49
Social media.
Speaker 1 – 19:50
No, I’ve. I have several. Yeah.
Speaker 2 – 19:52
What are they?
Speaker 1 – 19:52
I gotta say this out loud. Yeah.
Speaker 2 – 19:54
Social media, you’d be vulnerable back. Come on.
Speaker 1 – 19:56
Yeah, Social media. Because it was kind of like, you know, checking like. Or is the brand being. And it was just like,
interesting. It’s addictive. And then algorithm. You get an algorithm.
Speaker 2 – 20:05
Yeah, it’s addictive.
Speaker 1 – 20:05
So even for me, maybe it was a half hour, you know, it was very little time. But it was still the mindset it would put me
in after that was just not helpful. And so. And then I read about it. Like, you’re. What you put your attention to
expands and nothing. Very rarely on social media. Sometimes you’ll see some, like, really good quotes, whatever, but
you can get those anywhere. But what you put your attention on, your mind expands into that. And I fnd my. My
attention did not have enough focus on the right areas. I don’t blame that. Like, that’s my responsibility. But I just
think it’s the. Yeah. Given personality, like, algorithms will always win if you have some. Some things like, have to be
black or white. Like you have to navigate life artfully. Like we’re talking about navigating being rich.
Speaker 1 – 20:51
It’s lots of gray areas. It’s not a problem to solve. It’s more of a paradox to manage. I forget that quote. I love that
quote. Some things have to be black or white because it’s like that’s doing.
Speaker 2 – 20:59
Making things black and white makes it very easy to make a decision.
Speaker 1 – 21:02
Yeah.
Speaker 2 – 21:02
So really nothing’s. Everything’s gray. But if you make it black and white, then you make a decision.
Speaker 1 – 21:05
That was one. So that’s social media. I don’t have. So, like, literally deleted some of the accounts. And obviously our
company, it’s very important to have their brand, but someone else is running. I don’t have the passwords. Once a
week, he comes in the ofce. I check it all over. That’s it. Nothing else. Second was, you know, we’d throw 50 bucks
on a game. Now suddenly I’m watching and paying so much attention to the sports. I’ve never watched so much
sports in my life. And I’m like, you know what? My time is better. And that my downtime should not be in front of a tv.
It should be with friends, family, daughter, new hobbies, trying new experiences. There’s actually a proactive health
test I did. It was like some testing, some apoe or something, which is like a.
Speaker 1 – 21:49
If you’ve lived outlived by Peter too. It’s like, basically, if you have this genotype, then like, your Alzheimer’s, risk,
whatever. And it’s like the solution around. And mine was like, not super elevated, but it was like higher than average,
which makes sense. My grandpa had like, the number one way to address that is you cut out alcohol and you really.
You learn new hobbies. Yeah, you exercise alcohol, easy. But you learn. You learn. You’re constantly learning
something. And so I was like, well, I need to free up time. And so that for me is like an easy. Because, like, I eliminate
those $50, $10 bets, whatever. I eliminate all the communication with the people that are like, you know, talking
about it, and I eliminate watching the sports. So now for me, I’ve probably gone down from like, maybe watching.
Speaker 1 – 22:33
I don’t know if I’m honest, like, three games a week, down to maybe 20 minutes of a game I really care about, but I
still won’t even watch the whole game. So no offense, I didn’t watch all the entire Penn State. We don’t want to talk
about that. We don’t want to talk about that. Sorry. But you want. You got your MBA from Notre Dame, so you should
be.
Speaker 3 – 22:52
Yeah, I’m. I’m pulling for the Irish. I don’t want to see the Ruttenbergs strutting around all for the next nine months
either. So.
Speaker 1 – 23:00
Yeah, Ohio State, he’s the biggest fan. But yeah. Anyway, black or white decision eliminated past year. Review that
and then, you know, relationships. Like, I have a very close friend from college and we do like a monthly one one. And
I was like, you know what? Like, this has been amazing, like, mentorship. We go back and forth. Even, like, his mom’s
like, I’m so glad you guys. I’m like, you know, this is very impactful because we deal with similar, you know, stuff and
businesses and. And personal life. And so that was like, let’s go. Let’s get out of the country together and like, go on
a. On a guys trip. So we’re doing Machu Picchu in August, which would be really cool.
Speaker 3 – 23:37
So.
Speaker 1 – 23:37
But yeah, that was all based upon that past year review. So some, like, little changes. I think it’s gonna be sign, like
dramatic changes actually in 2025, though. Yeah. And then obviously when I get, you know, I think the more time, it’ll
be more time to like, learn new things or. Or really double down on perfecting the. The crafts outside of obviously
work as my Full attention. My daughter has my full attention. But then like, you know, doubling down on. On hobbies
and friends, like the dog hobbies. Why are we talking about me so much, you guys? We need to. I need to start
defecting and getting back on you guys. Yeah, make it nausea, though. Oh, that’d be crazy. But anyways, so, yeah.
Any other thoughts of the past year in review would obviously be a one as you’re navigating.
Speaker 1 – 24:27
You know, maybe some animosity, maybe some jealousy. You just sold a business or you just, you know, let’s say
bought a bit and now you have astronomical success. It’s. It’s. Sometimes it’s not obvious. Like, so good quote.
Worst thing in life, Devin, is to be rich or to be popular and broke. Best category or famous and poor? Yeah, famous
and poor is the worst status in life because, like, you’re getting all this attention, but it’s like, literally you have no
control of your life. The best status is rich or wealthy and anonymous. And that is like, goes against that need for
afrmation and that need, but like the reality. It’s like, why are we trying to impress people with fancy cars that we
don’t even care about? Like, you. Your close friends don’t care what house or car you live in.
Speaker 1 – 25:12
They’re going to accept you for you. You know, I would argue that nobody.
Speaker 3 – 25:14
Nobody cares at the end of the day.
Speaker 1 – 25:15
Nobody cares. Yeah. So wealth and anonymous is kind of a. An accountability, like, box to ft into. It’s like, that’s great
as long as you know, you’re putting your time and attention to the right. And then like the medium, mediocre one
would be like, you’re popular, famous and wealthy would be like the middle.
Speaker 3 – 25:34
Yep.
Speaker 1 – 25:35
The worst. That’s middle. And then the best is anonymous. And that’s why a lot of charitable stuff, like your client will
give like 100 grand to some charity and then they’re getting harassed from that charity for the rest of their life.
Versus, like, okay, we’ve seen that. Let’s. Why don’t we do that anonymously? You can give to that and then have, you
know, it’s your decision moving forward. It’s not a sales pitch to you every day moving forward. So. So anyways. All
right, next one. How so, you know, going back to like, what. Yeah, what else. What else do you guys see from like,
what’s a wealth problem and how do you. That anyone deals with and how do you fx it? I.
Speaker 1 – 26:17
I have one more I’m gonna ask you guys I’m gonna say, like, relationships, second marriages that we’ve seen a lot of
times, like, you get divorced. Maybe there was like an asset split, maybe there’s a breadwinner. And now maybe that
breadwinner now has continued to accumulate wealth and they’re in a new now. So there’s a lot of like, suicides.
Like, is this person with me because they love me? Is this person goes with me? That’s like the frst thought, right?
And then the other spouse, like, let’s say man or woman? I mean, we’ve seen it both sides. Breadwinners, both sides
is like, not. The not breadwinner is like, okay, this person, like, has their estate plan. It’s all going to their kids. Am I
going to be taken care of? Like, does he care about me or does he.
Speaker 1 – 26:56
Am I just like his or her? So it’s a very complex situation. And that the person divorced is probably like, I just got took
into the cleaners and I care about you. So there’s just so many high probability of misunderstanding. And navigating
that. Right. Can be, you know, make it or break it. Not only for protecting wealth, but more importantly is like
protecting your relationships and making sure that next relationship with the family dynamics of kids, grandkids and
new spouse, that it thrives, it doesn’t die. But any. Any thoughts about that? And we see that more common than not.
And that’s, you know, we’re very happy to play a central role in that, in those tough conversations, because we’ve
seen them, we’ve helped navigate them, and it’s not something that goes away. It’s just something that you need to
calibrate.
Speaker 3 – 27:46
What about the other side of the coin where you’re wealthy, got some money in the bank, you’re single, and now
you’re wondering if everybody that you’re interacting with is just there for one reason. Your cash. Right.
Speaker 1 – 27:58
Yeah. No, I. I know a client specifcally. It’s like literally the family done very well. And now the son was kind of like in
the 20s dating. And it’s like, was public information. The family had very good wealth. And yeah, it was like one after
another of like, it was obvious what the intentions were. And so it messes with your mind.
Speaker 2 – 28:17
Yeah.
Speaker 1 – 28:18
And so that person ended up, you know, with a person of similar wealth. And they’re happy, but. And not saying that’s
the solution. I’m just saying it’s very difcult to. And we’ve seen the happiest relationship sometimes have dramatic,
like, lower classes marrying the top. It doesn’t matter. But like, these are just not right or wrong. These are just things
you see and things you have to navigate with a very thoughtful approach.
Speaker 2 – 28:46
Solution could be just don’t get married.
Speaker 1 – 28:49
Is that your solution?
Speaker 2 – 28:50
It gave me. It could be. But not always.
Speaker 1 – 28:54
No. I think, I mean, what. So the. We’ve read studies about this. Like, the happiest people and richest people are
actually people in long term relationships and monogamous relationships with kids. That’s just like statistically, but
just like everything, there’s risk and ebbs and fows to that. So you said you. What’s your stance on kids? Jamie? So
are you gonna have kids? Me and them have kids.
Speaker 2 – 29:16
I don’t know. I mean, I’m in my late 20s and I don’t need to make that decision anytime soon. I’m indifferent.
Speaker 1 – 29:21
So what’s your opinion? I didn’t say.
Speaker 2 – 29:23
Are you gonna have my opinion of kids?
Speaker 1 – 29:25
Yeah.
Speaker 2 – 29:25
Like for myself or for anybody. I mean, I like my life right now and my independence and I can travel freely and I can
spend my time how I want. And my biggest fear with work, a lot, and my biggest fear with kids is not being able to do
that. And I know you can do all of those things at the same time. But. Yeah, I don’t know. I might have kids. I might
not. Right now, I’m undecided. I’m open to changing my mind.
Speaker 1 – 29:57
You have a kid? Chance is a kid.
Speaker 2 – 29:59
Yeah, I have a dog and it’s.
Speaker 1 – 30:00
Yeah, he’s a kid.
Speaker 2 – 30:01
Takes a lot of my time.
Speaker 1 – 30:02
Is he in your will?
Speaker 2 – 30:04
I was just thinking about this. I was thinking about. I don’t know if I should say this, but whatever.
Speaker 1 – 30:10
A little trust for a chance.
Speaker 2 – 30:12
Yeah, I was thinking about getting a nice trust with a big life insurance policy. Would pay out for the beneft of
Chance.
Speaker 1 – 30:17
All right, we gotta stay on track. Kevin, can you get us on track? What. What else is.
Speaker 2 – 30:22
Well, yeah, I mean, but the real. What are we talking about? Relationships? Yeah, it can be. It can be difcult if you
have. You have money. We see it all the time.
Speaker 1 – 30:29
But yeah, I’m gonna say two other ones I see is like the biggest problem in America is fnancial stress. I mean, that’s
just a statistic that most Americans, on average, relationships can go because of fnancial stress. People have
mental health problems because of fnancial stress. It’s the biggest stress in America. So you solve that. And I think
that the universe doesn’t like empty space, empty time, empty cracks. So now other stresses come into your life, and
so little stresses now become we see a lot of people that have a wealth they get very particular about little things
that before they, you don’t have time to worry about and now you’re really worried about. So it’s and that can take
away from the joy. So it’s you know, just I think it’s an important of being self aware and, and get, and still being
useful.
Speaker 1 – 31:16
Giving back is super important even if you don’t need it. Earn an income is considering how you spend your time.
Because if not then little things or other people’s problems can be magnifed and you know, life of gratitude can
become a life of like this is wrong, that’s wrong, et cetera. And so we do see that and we do exercises to help
navigate how are you living out your top values, is your money supporting your life by design, et cetera. And then I
would say the other thing too is that you can buy stuff just because you can and sometimes what you owns you.
Speaker 1 – 31:48
Meaning two vacation houses sounds great but you’re constantly in the back of your mind is that house safe
because the storms in Florida or is this house the upkeep and now you’re like feel like you have to go there and now
you spent your whole life trying to get autonomy and time freedom. Now you basically just gave it all back.
Speaker 2 – 32:06
5 million possessions, rent, everything that you can give it back. Literally everything.
Speaker 1 – 32:10
There you go. Devin, any thoughts on that?
Speaker 3 – 32:14
Yeah, I mean like you said sometimes the things that you own can own you, right? So classic example is you got a
couple of houses and then you have to hire staff to manage it and housekeepers and you have to manage them got
you’ve got cars and boats and you’re worried about are they going to get damaged and how much it costs can I
insure them? And yeah, I mean it’s a good problem to have but it’s defnitely a problem for sure.
Speaker 1 – 32:33
Absolutely Perfect. Well Devin Jameson, thanks for joining and obviously conversation to be continued as our
perspective grows. But that was some good awareness for those that have new you know, wealth or those that have
existing wealth that are struggling with some of these problems. Probably agree these are all have been issues and
you know, helping. We’re happy to be a helping you navigate through them and making sure the money is supporting
and not taking away from your life’s joy. Thanks for tuning in to our podcast. Hopefully you found this helpful. Really
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