Expert Tips for Navigating College Admissions with John Izzo

Welcome to Ewa’s finlit podcast. Ewa is a fee only RAA based out of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. We hope all listeners of this podcast will benefit as we deep dive into complex financial topics that we will make simplified for you. And we hope that this really serves as a catalyst so that you can make the best financial planning decisions for your family and also save time. Welcome everybody this week on Finlip by EWA, welcoming good friend and client, John Izzo. John is a CEO of class 101 in Pittsburgh and runs an amazing business that essentially helps high school graduates a all the way through Z as far as applying for schools, getting the best SAT scores, to getting as much money, free money as possible, to making smart decisions.
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Speaker 1
00:52
So exploration all the way to the finish line of getting into school and starting off with a strong start. So John, welcome.
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Speaker 2
00:59
Matt, thanks for having me.
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Speaker 1
01:01
Did I miss anything? As far as what you do?
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Speaker 2
01:03
No, you covered most of it, honestly. What we do is focus on students grades nine through twelve, usually more so 10th, 11th, sometimes 12th graders. We are in the business of helping kids explore from a career standpoint, explore what are the schools and all the colleges and universities that are going to be the best fit for them, whether it’s environmentally, financially, academically and then supporting them as they go through the vetting process, building their applications, test scores. Because, you know, college sometimes is a very black and white game and GPA, sat scores not only lead to acceptance, but then also scholarship money on the back end and then supporting them and their parents as they’re going through the financial aid process and then eventually until they make that decision to launch.
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Speaker 1
01:58
Awesome. I feel like, and I remember, you know, to date myself, 2006, going to college, it was just very random, like very influenced by adult figures in my life. Parents, you know, go to just go here, study this. So I had no clue what I was doing. I feel like I got extremely lucky. I fell into a lot of things. Now I feel like I’m in a position where I meant to do it, but it was just like a string of random chance and luck and hard work, obviously. But looking back, I would have loved to have someone tell me, hey, here’s what you do. So for the audience of our podcast and a lot of high net worth, high income earners, a lot of them are going to be planning for college or have kids going through this process.
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Speaker 1
02:46
So let’s just narrow this down to like, what are some, from all your experience, how many kids have you helped get into college at this point? Do you have statistics?
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Speaker 2
02:55
I do. So we launched October 2017. Over the six and a half years that we’ve supported students, we’ve, I believe, had 550 graduates.
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Speaker 1
03:08
And usually we have high school graduates.
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Speaker 2
03:10
High school graduates.
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Speaker 1
03:11
Okay.
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Speaker 2
03:11
Yes. Usually we hold a caseload of anywhere between 90 to 160 students, depending on how large our senior class is.
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Speaker 1
03:21
And you got a team, right? You’re not?
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Speaker 2
03:22
I have a team. I have a team, yes. So I am full time owner, operator, college planner. I have one full time college planner who is amazing. Honestly, I got so lucky finding her. And then I have a part time essay writer who helps all the kids do their revisions after essays are written. And then I just recently hired on a part time SaT prep instructor.
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Speaker 1
03:45
Awesome, awesome. So 550. So you obviously have a lot of perspectives. I want to just extract as much wisdom as we can from you. So out of this, what commonalities have you found? Like, if you were to. If, if someone wasn’t your client, you were just to give them, like, I don’t know, three, four, five tips of, like, hey, 80 20 analysis. I’m a huge believer in this. Like, if you folks, what’s the 20% of stuff that a junior or senior in high school could do that will make up 80% of the success they’re going to have at the next level?
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Speaker 2
04:17
To prepare for that, you touched on it kind of dating yourself going back to 2006. It is such a different game now. And 20 years ago, 18 years ago, whatever the number is, it was a much simpler process. You can apply to a college mid senior year. You can take your sats end of senior year, and in most cases, you’re still fine. Now it is so much more competitive. The students are smarter, they’re more driven. These colleges are getting insanely difficult to get into. So one of the biggest pieces of advice I would give is for parents and for students, you know, rising throughout high school. Do your research. You want to see what are the average statistics. So I am personally not a huge fan of an acceptance rate.
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Speaker 2
05:10
And that’s what everybody tends to go off of when they’re looking at what is the competitiveness of a school. And the reason I say that is because they’re very black and white numbers. It’s going to show that University of Tennessee has a 68% acceptance rate. So strong, but doable. And those numbers are not giving you what actually happens. So they’re showing that, okay, if 1000 kids apply, 680 get in, but we don’t know anything about those 680 students. So schools now are starting to promote what’s called a freshman profile. And it’s going to show you based on the students we most recently accepted, here is their average gpA. Here is their average SAT score. So then, as a parent and as a student, you can say, okay, their average GPA is a 4.3. I have a 3.7. Their average SAT score is 1320.
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Speaker 2
06:10
I have an 1100. Where do you fall within that window to be able to feel confident or comfortable with the idea of this? Is that target school that everybody talks about or what is a reach or what is a safety?
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Speaker 1
06:23
So that’s 68%. Are you saying people basically have a cheat sheet of, like, people that know they’re not going to be accepted? Like, already know, so they’re not even going to apply?
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Speaker 2
06:31
Is that essentially if you do your research? So that’s what we do. So I would never be the one to tell a kid, this is not going to work out for you, but I want you to have all the information to educate them, to make an informed decision, because I don’t want you to fall in love with a Range Rover when you can only afford a Honda. There’s no point. So the numbers are the numbers.
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Speaker 1
06:52
Gotcha. That’s mind blowing. I remember. Just a quick story. We’ll try to. You know, I. Yeah, as humble as possible. I got accepted, I think, in the most colleges I applied for, but I remember case Western was, like, the best one. I was excited and, like, you know, they offered me a decent amount of money and just for, like, religious reasons, like, they played basketball on Sundays, so my parents were against that, but like that. So I ended up going to Geneva, super religious school. But I remember I was adamantly against going to Geneva. And so I wrote the essay in, like, 30 seconds, and I was like, I want to, like, sabotage my chances of getting accepted here. And they, like, immediately accepted and basically gave me almost a full ride. But it’s funny. A totally different game back then than.
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Speaker 2
07:33
It was so different. But I wrote my college essay in my home Ec class on paper with a pencil in March before I graduated. And back then, it was. It was common.
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Speaker 1
07:46
I don’t think I could survive today’s competitive environment.
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Speaker 2
07:49
Now these. And that’s, again, you know, these are just tidbits. So much of it is educating yourself on how competitive these kids are now and how much these schools cost. So that is the one thing that, you know, I’ve seen when we are working with new clients, educating the parents on how much do these schools actually cost. So making them aware of how difficult these schools are to get into now. But then what are the price points? Because so many parents still have that mindset of, you know what? It’s 1987. You can mow lawns all summer to pay for fall tuition. Those days are long gone.
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Speaker 1
08:30
Our in state, that’s literally what my brother did.
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Speaker 2
08:32
Yeah. Our in state public schools, Pitt and Penn State, for example, since we live in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania’s in state tuition is very high compared to other states. So for a student in Pittsburgh who wants to go to Pitt and live on campus, they’re paying anywhere between 37 and 41,000 a year.
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Speaker 1
08:52
All in, like, tuition, fees, all room and board.
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Speaker 2
08:54
All tuition fees, room and board.
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Speaker 1
08:56
Before any scholarships or anything.
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Speaker 2
08:57
Before any scholarships.
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Speaker 1
08:59
That’s. That’s a big number.
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Speaker 2
09:00
It’s a big number. Now, when you start looking out of state and you’re getting into the out of state public schools, Ohio state, Virginia Tech, South Carolina, we’re at 50, 60 grand easy. And the problem is, and this is, again, where the research comes into play, you want to try to identify if the finances are important, who gives money and who does not, because sometimes schools are not as transparent as others. And trying to identify, okay, is this 60 a true 60?
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Speaker 1
09:32
Maybe it’s a 30 if you know what you’re doing.
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Speaker 2
09:34
Is this 60 a 30 with the right student? Right. The right stats at the right school.
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Speaker 1
09:40
Gotcha. Okay, so tip number one, just to summarize, it’s like, do a ton of research or team up with you, who has all this knowledge, so you can laser focus on what actually makes sense. Yeah. Okay, so, yeah, research is key. Research is key. Okay, so what’s. What will be, tip number two, I’m a senior and starting to work with you. How am I putting myself in the position for the best possible success?
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Speaker 2
10:10
Tip number two, and I’ve alluded to it, the competitiveness of these schools, really having the hard conversation with your students and as a family, identifying what is the most important thing as we gear up for post secondary education, and I personally ask this to all of my students I work with, and it’s a great conversation to have for anyone, sit down as a family and discuss what are the priorities for going to college. I try to lump them into, okay, so when you’re choosing a school, you really want to try to think big picture when you’re selecting your school. And hopefully prior to this point, you have explored careers, explored majors, pathways, because I think that is one of the most important factors in deciding what are the types of schools that you’re pursuing.
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Speaker 1
11:02
Wow. So just maybe a little bit of a side tangent here. I just remember when I was in senior of high school, I would basically just focus on sports and getting as high of a grade as possible. I had no inkling of thinking about the next stage of careers or major or anything like that. So how do you guide a senior in high school towards starting to think about like, putting on their big boy pants? Yeah. Cause I didn’t have any of that guidance. I didn’t seek it, but it wasn’t proactively given to me.
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Speaker 2
11:35
I don’t wanna say it’s difficult, but I try to be subtle with it because we want to identify what is the pathway. Also understanding that kids change their mind constantly and nobody has that crystal ball. What I try to at the very least do is identify a field, whether we’re using the disk assessment, the John Holland SDS code, one that actually has a really.
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Speaker 1
12:02
So wait, you’re doing the actual, like, the disassembly is something we did as like a firm, which was super helpful. It speaks to the culture, personalities, how everyone interacts. So you’re doing that for a high school kid?
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Speaker 2
12:12
We are doing it for the high school kid.
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Speaker 1
12:13
That’s crazy. So I imagine that probably eliminates like 90% of things that probably aren’t a good fit. Narrows it down.
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Speaker 2
12:20
At least it does narrow it down. We actually just started implementing this past year because we’ve used other resources in the past, but this is the one that we’re kind of targeting now. Because in addition to, you know, the careers and things that it spits out, it really gives you that personality of a student. And, you know, what is their leadership style, what is their communication style? And the reason I think that’s so important is, and if you can identify a field, whether it’s stem, medicine, business, you don’t have to get into the nitty gritty of I want to do finance or I want to do HR. Business is business. Initially you’re going into a business school or you’re going into a college of arts and sciences. That should, in my opinion, dictate what are the schools you’re looking at.
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Speaker 2
13:05
Because, and we’ve talked about this before, doing that research from a salary standpoint, but then also from a pathway standpoint. And this is by no means disrespecting anybody you know, within the social sciences or within education, but those ceilings are usually on the lower end. So in my opinion, if you were going to be financially responsible, you are going to probably target schools that are going to be cheaper for these students not to be in an absurd amount of debt that they’ll never be able to dig themselves out of.
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Speaker 1
13:40
I was just looking at stats. So, like, average, this is on a education data.org comma, average student loan debt. This is 20, 21, 37. Over 37,000 federal, 54,000 private out of 45 million plus borrowers have student loan debt. 92% of them have federal debt, which obviously, you know, we know the interest rates are on that. But what’s staggering to me is 20 years after school, half of those people still have more than half of their debt. So you talk about being strapped for a long time. For a long time. I think that the education around, and we have these different figures, like your income, household income is 200 or 250. You shouldn’t have a house over 500,000. It’s two x or it’s 30% your net take home. And this isn’t like a bank’s gonna give you twice that.
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Speaker 1
14:34
But if you want to have a financial plan in place, you don’t feel house poor, and you’re able to fund your kids college and retire. It’s just simple math. So talking about school loan debt, you know, I always give advice because I’ve stressed, tested, and I’ve seen so many people forecast you graduate, forecast your income three years out. If you’re a social worker, maybe that’s 50. If you’re a CPA, pursuing your CPA, maybe it’s 100. If you’re a doctor, maybe that’s 300. You shouldn’t come out of school with more than one time, one x. So one times that amount of school. So if you’re a social worker, you should be aiming for no more than 50.
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Speaker 1
15:07
If you’re a doctor, you should be aiming no more than and 300 if you’re a primary carer, 500 if you’re a surgeon, which I know can be tough. But do you agree with those figures? Are those figures doable? Cause a lot of people look at me like, what? That’s impossible.
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Speaker 2
15:24
I personally think whatever data you pulled up, and now I know it’s credible data and it’s nationwide data.
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Speaker 1
15:31
But again, that includes all the a ton of kids that are getting fully paid for, obviously. So excuse it. So what do you actually see out there?
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Speaker 2
15:38
All right, so just to paint a picture. So, again, where we live, our in state, the cheapest in state schools that a student can go to in Pennsylvania, outside of doing a community college route, for starters. Slippery rock. IuP, cal U. They cost for, let’s say, sticker price, tuition fees, room and board, about $22,000 a year. So our cheapest option is just shy of 90,000.
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Speaker 1
16:05
For four years.
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Speaker 2
16:06
For four years. Now they will give money, financial aid, you know, depending on. That’s a whole other issue with, you.
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Speaker 1
16:11
Know, how if you want to take a couple of victory laps, you’re way over six figures.
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Speaker 2
16:15
You’re way over six figures.
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Speaker 1
16:17
It’s crazy.
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Speaker 2
16:18
So, for the families that, you know, are fortunate enough to be able to help their students out by all means. But what I would say is, even though if you have the money, doesn’t necessarily mean you have to spend it.
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Speaker 1
16:27
Right.
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Speaker 2
16:28
Because if you’re doing your research and you are identifying, okay, this is a school that we like, and then this is where I think one of my biggest values comes in. Not only making it less stressful for the families, but identifying, okay, you like school a. They cost $40,000 a year. Competitive. To get into competitive usually leads to no scholarships Penn State, because they.
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Speaker 1
16:54
They don’t have to Penn State. They’re gonna get their whatever, their gonna.
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Speaker 2
16:57
Get their hundred thousand applicants and I. People are dying to pay full bout for it. So they give very little.
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Speaker 1
17:05
Why, though? Because they can’t even win a. They can’t even get into the CFP. I’m just kidding.
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Speaker 2
17:11
It’s.
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Speaker 1
17:11
But now that they’re expanding the, what.
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Speaker 2
17:13
Twelve teams I think it is this year, how many?
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Speaker 1
17:16
How. I’m joking, but I. Joking aside, how many kids decide based upon two factors, history of sports in their family or just parental influence? 80% are based on those factors.
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Speaker 2
17:30
I would say 80.
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Speaker 1
17:30
I went to Alabama. You’re going to.
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Speaker 2
17:32
80% are targeting. I want the big football tailgate, I want the sorority life. I want that experience.
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Speaker 1
17:40
It’s an expensive party.
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Speaker 2
17:41
I mean, it’s an expensive.
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Speaker 1
17:42
It’s going to be a hell pay for your kids car and they can drive there from.
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Speaker 2
17:46
It’ll be a heck of four years. Yeah, but that’s honestly what so many kids are chasing now. And, you know, I get it. It’s amazing. But make it make sense because there are schools like Penn State where if you’re not overly concerned about reputation, the kid who gets into Penn State could probably go to a Ohio university that has a similar feel for 22 with strong stats. So 37 versus 22.
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Speaker 1
18:15
Gotcha.
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Speaker 2
18:15
That’s, you know, so out of the.
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Speaker 1
18:17
550 kids that you’ve guided to, you know, post grad education, post high school. And is that mostly four year or do you do you also do trade schools and vast majority four year.
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Speaker 2
18:32
And I come from a counseling background. So even though my business is, I would say, fully based around helping kids.
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Speaker 1
18:39
For your bachelor’s college. Yeah.
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Speaker 2
18:41
I will be the first to tell you not everybody needs to go to college.
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Speaker 1
18:45
Yeah.
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Speaker 2
18:46
There I’ve had some that went through the process they’ve explored and ended up going to air force or ended up enlisting in the Navy or going and doing some sort of apprenticeship program.
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Speaker 1
18:58
So I mean, those people probably got the biggest value from you, even though they didn’t get what they were just the guidance to say, hey, you’re avoiding $100,000 trap that it’s not meant for you was probably the biggest win.
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Speaker 2
19:11
My big thing is like, yes, I wondez. You know, all of my kids to, you know, go to the school that they want to go to or get the money that they deserve, but ultimately it is putting yourself in a position to do what makes the most sense for you. And for those kids, it was avoiding the debt. Going, doing an 18 month apprenticeship program, eventually making 90 grand as a 20 year old kid with no debt.
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Speaker 1
19:36
It’s incredible. I mean, it’s even 90 grand with no debt. I, if you want to go live by yourself, I mean, it’s.
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Speaker 2
19:43
Oh, it’s stupid money for a kid.
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Speaker 1
19:44
Yeah, I mean that’s, it’s. But if you think about like in Pittsburgh, 90,000, here’s my nerd. That’s probably, you know, 4800 a month and, you know, let’s say rents, 1502 thousand. But it’s still, it’s totally doable. But it’s not at, you’re not living a lavish, like a lavish lifestyle yet you take a school loan payment and it’s a thousand or 2000 a month. I mean, you’re right back into college after you graduate. You have roommates, you’re maybe going back to your live with your parents to get that school loan debt paid off. So the decisions obviously you make before college will drastically affect really the rest of your life in some capacity.
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Speaker 2
20:25
Very much so. I was working with a client last night, actually, and, you know, were going through the financing portion of, you know, what we helped them with and I, they are contributing to a large portion of their child’s tuition and fees, but we still had a balance of about 14,000. And these rates, obviously people are pretty aware these rates are high. And these banks and lenders, they make it so easy for a student to get a school loan cosign or whatever, but you’re at a seven to 18% interest rate. And for the people who are not aware, and you’re just worried about paying the tuition bill in August, like, you’ll sign almost anything, and at 12%, you’re gonna get killed.
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Speaker 1
21:13
Yeah. It’s every six years that balance is doubling.
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Speaker 2
21:16
Yeah, it’s awful.
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Speaker 1
21:18
Out of the 550 put you on the spot here, kids that you’ve helped graduate high school into a college acceptance, do you have any figures on, like, what their school loans balances are? And the reason I ask is, you blew my mind the first time we talked a couple years ago. You’re like, how many scholarships that are out there that you go after that I just had no idea about?
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Speaker 2
21:39
There’s a lot. If you put the time and you dedicate the diligence to it, there’s money out there. It’s not as easy as it once was. I remember back in our day, if you have red hair or if you’re left handed, you know there’s. There’s money out there. I think those pots have dried up a little bit. They are now way more targeted to. This one’s for a student going into nursing. This one is for a female going into the engineering field. So there’s still money out there. It’s just you have to take the time to identify which ones you’re eligible for and then put the time in to write the essays and actually grind it out.
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Speaker 1
22:19
Gotcha. Okay. All right, so we’ve covered education is key, personality set, getting into the right field. Do you have stats? I can look it up as well. How many times someone changes their major?
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Speaker 2
22:33
I do.
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Speaker 1
22:33
Throughout their college. How many is that?
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Speaker 2
22:35
I can’t quote exactly where it came from, but it was a credible source, I promise. I believe it was. 80% of college undergraduates changed their majority once, at least once. And out of those 80%, I believe the average amount was, like, three to five times a lot. Way more than I ever expected.
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Speaker 1
22:55
There’s more decision with social media. We want stuff like the boom, boom. It’s like decision fatigue is like the big. It’s like an epidemic. Yeah, it’s crazy. We didn’t have that back. I mean, I didn’t even. I don’t think I have a cell phone in college. Maybe a flip phone.
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Speaker 2
23:09
See, I got my first. No, it wasn’t even a flip phone. Remember the old Nokias with the. The little block?
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Speaker 1
23:14
Yeah.
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Speaker 2
23:14
That was junior year. I remember getting that.
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Speaker 1
23:16
There was no TikTok on there, was there?
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Speaker 2
23:18
These kids are ruined.
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Speaker 1
23:20
It’s crazy. But, I mean, it’s so, I mean, there’s good that comes out of it. But I think with anything you have to navigate, you know, when things are, a lot of strengths can become our biggest weaknesses, right? And so now we have so many options. Options are good, but if they overwhelm you to the point where you’re changing your major three or four times, you don’t know what school, obviously, that can set you back for some people, probably a lifetime wondering what their calling is or what their purpose is, etcetera. So your process obviously, proactively tries to address that as much as possible. So do you have any more tips? And once you’re done with the tips, I want to talk about what are the, like, what are the biggest mistakes that people can avoid, parents or kids during this process.
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Speaker 2
24:00
Tip number one, research vet have those difficult conversations. Tip number two, everything happens so much sooner. So again, you know, Matt and I spoke about, you know, handling all this college stuff, you know, early senior year, middle end of senior year. By the time senior year comes for most of these kids, truthfully, the damage is done. Good, bad or ugly. Now, there’s plenty of ways to skin a cat. So I’m not saying, you know, the way we do it is the way to do it, but be proactive. So for all of our rising seniors, we have 87 rising seniors by September 15. Applications built essays written applications submitted to first and foremost meet any of these early action deadlines. Maintain the application portal, so ensure student academic reports are submitted or built letters of rec transcripts, honors college applications.
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Speaker 2
25:03
But then for the kids to be able to actually enjoy 12th grade, they’re busier than ever now. So, you know, to expect a kid to go to school for 8 hours, go to practice or work or club, music, band, whatever, you get home at 07:00 at night and then you have to go write your college essay. It’s a big ask for sure. So really try to be proactive to get ahead of the game, but then also try to enjoy the process.
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Speaker 2
25:28
And, you know, so many families talk about, you know, senior year, it is the most stressful time because they’re badgering their kids to get things done and kids don’t want to listen to them get it all done now over the summer when it’s, when you have the time to do it and then you can actually enjoy the last nine months with your kid.
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Speaker 1
25:49
It’s great. So do you find that, is there a huge difference between, because you start working with some people as a freshman.
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Speaker 2
26:01
In high school, right I do.
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Speaker 1
26:02
Do you find a major difference between someone starting in your program in 9th grade versus someone waiting till that senior year?
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Speaker 2
26:08
I do. And it’s the research and the vetting that happens in between there. So for a senior, yeah, we will help a senior. But again, there’s only so many hours in the day and there’s only so much time to be able to identify what are the right fits. It is at that point, okay, what do we want to do? What are the schools that offer what we want to do? And then looking atmosphere, price point. But as a freshman, sophomore, junior, senior, we are within those two and a half, three years, we are confirming you want to go into medicine. Okay. Which type of medicine you might want to start as a doctor, but then realize I’d actually rather go the physician assistant route because I don’t want to sacrifice eleven years of training and education. So I would say more.
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Speaker 2
26:56
So the confirmation of what they want to do and where they want to go happens.
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Speaker 1
27:00
Awesome, John. This is awesome. So I’m just trying to think because you have what other people have is like, very caring parents that would do anything for their kids, and the kids have all their. Their friends at school. The problem is with that is there you kind of become the average of people you surround yourself with. And, you know, obviously people you love tend to be extremely biased. What you have is unbiased, just facts, like logical information. So I just want to rapid fire some questions at you, if that’s it. And just. I don’t need exact answers. Just give me, like, estimates. So, let me think. First question. So someone has a. So, first of all, SAT scores. When I was graduating, there was like three things, but they were like. They ignored part of it.
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Speaker 1
27:50
So what’s, like, what’s the SAt level right now?
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Speaker 2
27:53
SAT, there’s.
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Speaker 1
27:55
What’s the highest score you can get? And is that three parts now or still two?
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Speaker 2
27:59
Two parts. So this is the one thing that’s a. That’s a big change, even from last year. So the SAt is now totally digital. Two sections. It’s broken up into four modules, but there’s two sections. There’s a reading comprehension, a vocabulary, and then a grammar piece, and then the second half of it is math.
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Speaker 1
28:20
Okay.
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Speaker 2
28:21
So it went from a three and a half hour exam. Now it’s down to, like, 2 hours and ten minutes. So it’s still scored the same, but it’s vastly different from how it used to be.
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Speaker 1
28:30
Okay, so I want to. I’m a freshman, and, you’re sitting down with me. I’m the parent. I want my daughter. I’m like, I’m set. I want an Ivy league. Let’s go. Super. You can feel I’m like a crazy parent. You’re telling me what your kid needs to have. What sat, what kind of outside? Like, what are three or four check marks I need to have for an iv?
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Speaker 2
28:52
Okay, so you need to max out the rigor at your high school, every honors, every AP course from offered from now until you graduate, you need, if you’re submitting test scores. And Ivy leagues have reported that they are now going to be requiring scores. So to be competitive, 1520 to 1570.
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Speaker 1
29:17
So basically you’re saying I need to be perfect. Not me. I need to be my brother.
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Speaker 2
29:21
You need to be perfect.
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Speaker 1
29:22
Who? I think he got it, like, almost a perfect on this. It’s crazy.
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Speaker 2
29:26
But in addition to that, he took.
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Speaker 1
29:27
All the smart jeans away because he’s a little bit older than me, but.
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Speaker 2
29:30
You’Re probably taller than him, so it’s a tiny bit.
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Speaker 1
29:32
Yeah, but. All right, cool. So either do outside activities come into play at all, like how involved I was with sports, how involved I was with, or is for an Ivy League. Is it just like purely academics?
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Speaker 2
29:45
It is. It is not, sadly. And I went to a seminar, it.
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Speaker 1
29:49
Is not taken into effect or it’s not taken into consideration?
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Speaker 2
29:52
It is very much taken into consideration.
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Speaker 1
29:54
Gotcha. So I only need, I mean, perfect. I need to, like, you need do everything basically for.
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Speaker 2
30:00
And, you know, everything rolls downhill. So a student who, you know, had a four or five GPA and had a 14. 1450 ten years ago was very much at an Ivy League level. I think. Now these kids, they’re. It’s an international pool. So they are not only getting the best kids in the US, they’re getting the best kids in the world. So the most outstanding grades you can get test scores almost perfect. The days of being in key club and being on the basketball team or being in the marching band, they’re a dime a dozen. These kids are spending their summers volunteering at the UPMC Cancer center doing cancer research, or they are doing research to be a part of the publication.
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Speaker 1
30:46
So they’re not only perfectly smart, they’re perfect human beings is what you’re saying.
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Speaker 2
30:50
It is on a whole other level.
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Speaker 1
30:51
Gotcha.
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Speaker 2
30:52
These kids and the parents need to know this. These kids that have the dreams of Ivy League MIT, Stanford, Johns Hopkins, you were living a life dedicated to appeasing that school, which may or may not happen.
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Speaker 1
31:08
Gotcha. But your second backup choice will be a good. It should be a case western or a brown or something like that.
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Speaker 2
31:15
Well, and the thing now is, like I said, everything kind of rolls downhill. So, you know, the kid ten years ago who had the stats to get an iv, they didn’t have the activities. So those kids that have the four twos in the 1480s, not the 1520s, they’re going down to the next tier, which is the Villanova’s and the CMUs. And then they’re pushing those kids down to where the u Michigans would be in the Wisconsin’s. And these schools that you wouldn’t expect to be insanely competitive are now almost top tiers, incredibly difficult to get into.
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Speaker 1
31:53
Okay, so I’m coming, so. All right, I give up. I’m not. No, I’m just kidding. Hopefully my daughter’s smart enough to be obvious. Who knows? But I just want to enjoy life. But anyway, so. And be productive citizen.
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Speaker 2
32:03
That’s what’s most important.
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Speaker 1
32:04
That’s most important. First and foremost. And to add value to others. But. So I am. These are just rapid fire questions. I just wanna hear your gut responses and you can correct yours. So I have. I’m middle of the. What’s middle of the road? SAT schools. Like a score. Like, what is that, a twelve? 1312 is. Okay.
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Speaker 2
32:29
Twelve is, you know, average.
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Speaker 1
32:31
Now, sadly, I’m coming in 1200. I generally know I don’t want to be a doctor, but I have no idea really what I want to do. And I’m asking you geographically. I’ll go anywhere in America, and I don’t have much financial help from my parents. Okay, you have to give me just three basic recommendations on the. Hey, this school will cover. It’s got a good business school. You could be X, Y or Z. They’ve got the basic cover. What are the three best balanced choices from finance, economic perspective? They’re also safe. We’re going to have a good culture there. What would be your three recommendations?
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Speaker 2
33:13
Something within science. 1200 sat. What’s the GPA?
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Speaker 1
33:18
We’ll say like a three. What’s that? What’s an average? Okay.
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Speaker 2
33:23
All right. Anywhere in the country. That one’s tough. You gotta give me. Give me a region.
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Speaker 1
33:28
Okay. East Coast.
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Speaker 2
33:29
East Coast. Ohio University is big, but not too big. Very cute. Prototypical college town. Gorgeous. Out of state for us. But with those statistics, we should be on the higher end of their scholarship. Tier I 36, for starters, probably turns into 25, 26 after some after. After merit baseball.
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Speaker 1
33:54
After some stuff. Yeah.
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Speaker 2
33:56
So I think that is a great value.
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Speaker 1
34:00
And what could I go study? Okay. Is good business school.
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Speaker 2
34:03
Business is solid. They have actually a pretty cool aviation program.
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Speaker 1
34:09
Okay.
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Speaker 2
34:10
General sciences are all fine unless you get into something niche. And one of my big questions when you’re starting is you want to roll in or out? Engineering, nursing, architecture, because those are the three you have to go to the right place, typically are not offered everywhere.
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Speaker 1
34:28
Okay. How important is it if you’re in one of those three, to have a top program for as far as getting a good offer job wise, after?
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Speaker 2
34:37
I think that’s the million dollar question. Everybody’s gonna have a different perspective, in my opinion, and I could be wrong. I think a nurse is a nurse, I think an engineer is an engineer, and I think an architect is an architect. Everybody’s gonna have their own opinion on it.
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Speaker 1
34:53
Yeah, I agree. I think. Cause me personally, I think, like, no, I love them. I call it was great, blah. But I mean, I probably apply less than 5% of what I learned there on a daily basis.
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Speaker 2
35:03
I think, personally, I think it is what the kid does with the opportunities presented. The name of your school. Yes. Will it give you network and connections? The name of your school might even get you an interview. But at the end of the day, I think the person gets the job.
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Speaker 1
35:22
Yeah. It’s you experience. You can build your own network. You can work your way into anything, you can work your way out of anything.
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Speaker 2
35:28
That’s kind of my approach to it, at least.
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Speaker 1
35:29
Gotcha. Okay. I’m in financial ruinous. I’m the parent. My kids were middle of the road. No idea what we want to do. What are you know, what are you recommending? Are we doing two years of community college, then going to two years after? Are we going still going to Ohio? Like, what would be a good pathway there?
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Speaker 2
35:56
I think it depends on what type of experience the kid is willing to have. And so much of that now, granted, again, the community college route is incredibly underused. And if you are committed to being financially responsible with this college thing, for a student who doesn’t know what they want to do, they are not big on the Penn State party, they’re not big on the sorority life. All of the perks that come with a four year college, if that’s not important to them, community college is 1000% the way to go.
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Speaker 1
36:30
If I were to go do it again, and I wouldn’t change a thing, don’t get me wrong. I’m just saying from all the perspective I would do, here’s what I would do. I would do two years, and this again, if I didn’t play basketball. I couldn’t have done this because of basketball, but I would have done two years of community college and done as many internships as humanly possible during those two years and just taking it seriously enough to get good grades to carry over. But everything I’ve ever learned is on job experience because, like, I was told I should be an accountant. And then, like, my least favorite classes in college, pretty much the only not a I got in college was auditing. I hated it.
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Speaker 2
37:10
We let you manage our money.
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Speaker 1
37:11
No, auditing is, like, just boring, like corporate stuff. But literally, I went and took a job in auditing. I was miserable for a year. So I would have never done that if I had simply, like, taken my time at intern. But all these voices were around me like, oh, Deloitte is like, you know, that’s the best job offer ever. And it was. Deloitte’s a great company, but it just wasn’t for me. Wasn’t for you, it wasn’t for me. It wasn’t my personality. It wasn’t. And so all of those pain points and, like, years of wasted could have been fixed. If I had just gone and, like, experienced one day, just one day or even 1 hour, even 1 minute of auditing in a room, I would have known. I never would have done that. But let alone I accepted a job.
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Speaker 1
37:50
I’m just going on a rant right now.
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Speaker 2
37:52
But.
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Speaker 1
37:53
But it’s the reality. I think a lot of kids do that.
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Speaker 2
37:55
Well, and to your point, you know, going back to how many kids changed their major, you know, they’re told, oh, you’re good with numbers, so go be an accountant. And, you know, I think the reason that the major change rate is so high is because, you know, they’re told, or the assumption is, I should go do this thing. First semester. Yeah, you’re taking your basic business courses. Second semester, you’re in your first accounting course. You realize, oh, no, this is not anything what I thought it was. I’m going to switch. They have to switch into something. So then they have to switch again. And once you get to a point where, you know, if you change your major early on, you know, 1st, 2nd, 3rd semester, as long as you’re not too deep into the curriculum, it’s salvageable.
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Speaker 2
38:39
But for the students that are switching junior year, then you’re tacking on another semester, another year. And that’s when it becomes an issue, no question versus costly, being able to explore it. Go do a job shadow, see it firsthand and then, you know, kind of what you’re expected to get into.
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Speaker 1
38:57
Yeah.
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Speaker 2
38:59
Yeah.
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Speaker 1
38:59
I mean, honestly, like, it’s a really expensive if someone just go into, you know, picking on Penn State, and it’s a great school, great parties, great football, great, you know, that’s an expensive party if you have no scholarships. I mean, go to community college and give your kid ten grand so they can go there every weekend, get them. Buy them an Airbnb for like eight months, and they can spend every weekend there if they get a 4.0. I’m just thinking out loud here. But anyways, no, I think it’s. College is obviously like a once in a lifetime experience. And not taking away from that. I’m just speaking from purely from a financial perspective. I think a lot of people, it’s not a.
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Speaker 1
39:35
They go more for the name and then I see a lot of people come out of those four years, and that’s kind of like the high, the expectation. I love psychology. And then from there, it’s like, you know, dopamine hits the certain part of your brain and then, like, we can’t be happy unless we’re getting that. But that’s impossible now you’re in the real world and now you’re so let down. There’s a lot of. Again, I think it’s an epidemic because there’s not enough proactive advice given to kids going to that next level. And this. So just. I’m going to speak purely statistically, and this is probably going to upset people because everyone wants the best for their kids.
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Speaker 1
40:10
But, I mean, studies have shown, like, you help your kids too much, it ends up hurting them, hurts their motivation, it hurts their success later in life. So this is the first time in history that a couple things have happened. So, first thing in. First time in history that, you know, people in their. So if we look at our parents when they were twenties and now this generation, their twenties, it’s the first time in history that people in their twenties now are less successful than their parents every time before.
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Speaker 2
40:43
Interesting.
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Speaker 1
40:43
Kids have been more financially successful than their parents. This is the first time in history that’s not the case. Well, you have to ask why is that? Well, it’s simple. I mean, people are riddled with school loans. Absolutely. Riddle school loans. And there’s so much decision fatigue and people are changing their minds every day that they can’t stay focused in a career. Our parents, it was pretty. They didn’t change their career path, they grinded it out.
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Speaker 2
41:06
I mean, I don’t want to dive too deep in the Gen zs, but you know, the entitlement that a lot of them feel the feeling of I need to be fulfilled and I need to make an impact. And you know, the days of, you know, being with the company for 1020 years, I don’t think it happens anymore.
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Speaker 1
41:27
Yeah. And so the other statistic I’m going to share is this is the first time in history in America this year, 2024 that there’s more people over the age of 65 in America than there are under 15. And so what that tells you a couple things. One, obviously people aren’t having kids, but if you look at where the money it flows, over 80% of wealth in America is with individuals over 65 because they’ve had the most time to accumulate it. So there’s actually a wealth. A lot of people as the generations pass on, there’s going to be a wealth transfer. But right now what’s actually happening is there’s a wealth transfer from people in their twenties to people in their sixties because of just being riddled with school loans and not making good financial choices.
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Speaker 1
42:12
And I investing in maybe products that you don’t need. And the older people are own the stocks of those products so those driving the price. So it just, it’s just interesting statistics. I think the education, the literacy and the decisions, unfortunately we go through cycles where like I think, you know, for someone generation had it really hard their whole life is to make it easy for their kids and then those kids have it so easy that ends up creating a really hard life for their kids because they don’t do any planning and so good kind of goes in these generations. I think education, literacy and tough convert can fix so we can have a smoother and avoid those huge ups and huge downs in society.
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Speaker 2
42:49
It makes sense. I mean it’s again, it’s numbers. It’s Matt, you’re the numbers guy.
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Speaker 1
42:53
Way too big of a nerd. Anyway, so I’m trying to think of other wisdom I can extract from you. John. This has been super amazing so far. So what business schools, let’s say in that like top third quartile. So I’ve got an sat of like 1300 GPa of let’s say three nine. I played one sport, volunteered a couple times. I’m very sure I want to go into business school. Okay, how important top three east coast.
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Speaker 2
43:26
How important are the finances?
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Speaker 1
43:31
It’s on the scale, but it’s not the only scale. I want to have fun. Half of it’s planned for my parents. I want to make a good choice, but I also do want to enjoy that four year experience at college. I’m not doing community school that’s off the table. That four year going to football games, I’m playing intramurals. I want to have a good experience. I also want to come out with a very good chance of a good job offers right away.
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Speaker 2
43:56
University of South Carolina, dollar Moore School of Business. Fantastic. Up and coming. So it’s not insanely difficult to get into, but it’s getting there. Miami University of Ohio. A sleeper. Big D one school. Cute, adorable. Their farmer school of business is probably ranked within the top ten of public schools in the country. This might be a stretch, but University of Tennessee.
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Speaker 1
44:29
Okay.
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Speaker 2
44:29
They are another one that’s coming up strong.
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Speaker 1
44:32
Interesting. Knoxville.
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Speaker 2
44:34
Knoxville. It’s amazing how and you can.
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Speaker 1
44:38
It’s a cool town. It’s a cool city.
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Speaker 2
44:39
It’s a cool city. Everything within this collar stuff works within a trend.
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Speaker 1
44:44
So you can see it’s kind of like housing markets. It can get real hot and then it can cool down.
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Speaker 2
44:49
Yes.
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Speaker 1
44:49
Interesting.
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Speaker 2
44:50
Pay attention to college football. Who’s in the top ten? Who’s in the top 25?
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Speaker 1
44:56
Does that help academics or hurt? It helps interest, which drives competition, which probably drives salaries of professors up, which drives money and all of the things.
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Speaker 2
45:07
So Tennessee, you know, the past couple years, they’ve really made a splash with college football, college basketball, college football. And is it a coincidence that over the last four years, they’ve jumped from 40,000 applications a year to 80,000 interest, which when you have that spike in applications, you can afford to be more selective, which means you can then be. You can afford to be less generous with scholarship money because more people want to go there.
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Speaker 1
45:32
I’m going to simplify this for my. For my daughter. We’re going. If this school didn’t make the NCAA tournament, it’s off the table.
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Speaker 2
45:41
Yeah, I’m just kidding.
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Speaker 1
45:42
But, I mean, it’s a deal breaker.
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Speaker 2
45:43
Honestly.
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Speaker 1
45:44
Football is probably more of a trend, but I’m just thinking basketball. That’s funny. I mean, there’s obviously no. Billions of dollars in the NIL is showing that just how much money there is. But that makes complete sense as far as where the money flows, is a big driver.
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Speaker 2
46:01
It’s so much more of a business than what people realize.
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Speaker 1
46:04
Okay. Just overall, it doesn’t matter, major, just in what you’ve seen. Top three overrated schools, given that, let’s say, the principles of the finances, the education, you’re going to receive and then job offers after. So not just waiting. All those considerations. It doesn’t have to be like an equal scale. And then top three underrated schools in America.
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Speaker 2
46:27
Overrated? Again, these are just opinions. I think University of Maryland is overrated. I think it’s a good school.
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Speaker 1
46:41
What is it? The terrapins.
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Speaker 2
46:42
The terrapins. Good school. Overly, overly priced. You know, probably 55, 60,000. Very, very limited with scholarship money. Big ten school. So, you know, what I tell all my kids is if you want to go to Maryland, go to Penn State. Similar. Feel closer. You’ll spend half the money. I don’t think that’s worth it. Overrated. From the elements that probably are most important. Alabama. So a lot of people are chasing the Alabama train for obvious reasons, but if you’re a very high flying student, you can get a lot of scholarship money. It’s not a difficult school to get into, so it predominantly attracts kids who are on the lower end academically. But they’re gonna pay 55,000 a year. And the third overrated school.
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Speaker 1
47:43
We’re not talking sports here. We’re talking academics.
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Speaker 2
47:46
Talking academics. University of Miami.
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Speaker 1
47:53
Interesting.
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Speaker 2
47:54
University of Miami. Yes. It’s a great school. I wouldn’t go there for anything other than something within science, healthcare. I think that’s their bread and butter. But when you’re at a $95,000 price point with very little money per year, get out of here on everything. Holy. 95 and good school.
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Speaker 1
48:16
And again, just to clarify, we’re talking bang for your buck.
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Speaker 2
48:18
Bang for your buck reputation. Yeah.
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Speaker 1
48:20
If money is irrelevant to you’re gonna get a good education there. But if we’re talking about the average.
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Speaker 2
48:25
Correct.
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Speaker 1
48:25
Yeah.
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Speaker 2
48:26
With all these factors, I don’t think anything warrants $95,000 a year. Now, these are numbers for parents and families who are not going to qualify for any true. Need financial aid.
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Speaker 1
48:39
Gotcha. Okay. Okay. Top three. Underrated.
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Speaker 2
48:43
Underrated.
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Speaker 1
48:47
Give it again. Given the factors of bang for your Buckley acceptance rates.
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Speaker 2
48:53
Underrated, job wise, after Florida State.
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Speaker 1
48:56
Okay.
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Speaker 2
48:57
Now, it’s on every ranking. It’s on every reputation. But not, as many people realize how good of a school it is insanely hard to get into. And it is constantly ranked on the list for the best value universities. So just to paint a picture, average.
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Speaker 1
49:16
Snubbed. Undefeated average.
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Speaker 2
49:17
Yeah.
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Speaker 1
49:18
Well, that quarterback goes down. I need to stop talking about sports anyways. Go ahead.
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Speaker 2
49:22
Average student who gets in four to four six GPA, 1350 SAT score. They are a public school out of state, but they will cost about $29,000 a year.
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Speaker 1
49:34
That’s it. So you’re surrounding yourself with geniuses for pennies. Pennies, comparatively speaking.
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Speaker 2
49:41
Correct. So underrated from, I would say, an awareness standpoint. Not as many people realize how good for. That is one of the best bang for your box.
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Speaker 1
49:50
Okay.
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Speaker 2
49:52
Another underrated pit, which is ironic. So a lot of the kids.
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Speaker 1
50:01
Now, you said how expensive it is, but it’s that good.
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Speaker 2
50:04
It is expensive, but, you know, for where we live. We live in Pittsburgh, so it’s in our backyard. So people underestimated how good of a school it is academically. So it is on every top public school in the country, east coast ranking scale. Now, I think it’s, you know, too much for what it is, but a lot of them are. Pitt is incredibly underrated. Strong science, strong engineering, business, and Indiana University in Bloomington, underrated.
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Speaker 1
50:43
Great school. Parents weather.
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Speaker 2
50:45
Another Kelley school of business is now businesses. They’re bread and butter. But again, there’s some money at stake, but it’s a great school. Underrated, I think.
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Speaker 1
50:55
Gotcha. Okay. Money is absolutely no issue. And your. You. The. Your kid wants to go to Pittsburgh. Again, money. It just. Let’s just say it’s. It’s free, and you can get anywhere you want in Pittsburgh. Business. Where you sending your kid in Pittsburgh.
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Speaker 2
51:18
A school in Pittsburgh?
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Speaker 1
51:19
Mm . Business school. Over CMU?
S
Speaker 2
51:30
Yeah.
S
Speaker 1
51:32
Okay.
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Speaker 2
51:33
I think.
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Speaker 1
51:33
Now, what majors would you pick a CMU over?
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Speaker 2
51:36
Anything. Stem.
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Speaker 1
51:37
Okay.
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Speaker 2
51:38
Engineering, robotics, computer science. Any. Anything there, I think, is. Is a no brainer.
S
Speaker 1
51:45
CMU. Okay.
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Speaker 2
51:46
CMU.
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Speaker 1
51:47
Interesting.
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Speaker 2
51:47
Not saying that, you know, is pit better than CMU? No, but I just feel like there’s. There’s something about the connections you can get at Pita with the network.
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Speaker 1
51:58
Interesting. Okay, well, John, anything I asked. I didn’t ask today that I should have asked. You think it’s important for the audience to hear with the. Again, my goal is to just extract all the info I can out of you.
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Speaker 2
52:11
The one thing I would add is, you know, every. And we’ve touched on it, you know, find what makes sense for your family, your dynamic. The one thing that I think I’ve seen way too often that can put a lot of these kids in a bad situation is when their parents are vicariously living through them. And what I mean by that is there’s a lot of families that. And most of them are well off, truly, because the business that I own, it’s for profit, so it is parent paid, and most of them have the means to support their kids financially, partially or fully. Partially or fully, yeah. At least to pay for me to be able to give them the support. And there’s a.
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Speaker 2
52:58
There’s a spectrum, you know, people who have a ton of money and people who do not, and the parents who would have loved to have that Alabama experience are the ones pushing their kids to go to Alabama and being okay with them taking out 200,000 in student loans. And I think that is the most devastating part, versus a parent that, you know, doesn’t care about, you know, their kid having the experience of a lifetime for four years because they understand the impact that all this has. So, you know, if I can give any advice, don’t live vicariously through your kids. Don’t allow them to chase the four year Miami dream unless you are okay with spending $500,000 a year or $500,000 for a four year degree and, you know, really have those hard conversations.
S
Speaker 1
53:50
Great advice. Great advice. We try to have those as well as proactively as possible, but it’s as, you know, having kids hit differently, you just want to do anything you possibly can for them.
S
Speaker 2
54:02
But I get it.
S
Speaker 1
54:03
It’s great. Until again, that strengthen. You got to make sure it’s a strength that it doesn’t turn into a weakness.
S
Speaker 2
54:09
Right.
S
Speaker 1
54:09
So. Well, John, thank you so much for joining. I’m sure there’s going to be incredible wisdom for all of our listeners.
S
Speaker 2
54:15
Always a pleasure.
S
Speaker 1
54:16
Yeah, absolutely.
S
Speaker 2
54:16
See you.
S
Speaker 1
54:17
Thanks again. Thanks for tuning in to our podcast. Hopefully you found this helpful. Really hope this is as beneficial and impactful to as many people across the nation as possible. So hit the follow button, make sure to rate the podcast, and please share with any friends or family members that would also find this beneficial. Thank you very much.
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00:0054:45
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Welcome to Ewa’s finlit podcast. Ewa is a fee only RAA based out of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. We hope all listeners of this podcast will benefit as we deep dive into complex financial topics that we will make simplified for you. And we hope that this really serves as a catalyst so that you can make the best financial planning decisions for your family and also save time. Welcome everybody this week on Finlip by EWA, welcoming good friend and client, John Izzo. John is a CEO of class 101 in Pittsburgh and runs an amazing business that essentially helps high school graduates a all the way through Z as far as applying for schools, getting the best SAT scores, to getting as much money, free money as possible, to making smart decisions.
S
Speaker 1
00:52
So exploration all the way to the finish line of getting into school and starting off with a strong start. So John, welcome.
S
Speaker 2
00:59
Matt, thanks for having me.
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Speaker 1
01:01
Did I miss anything? As far as what you do?
S
Speaker 2
01:03
No, you covered most of it, honestly. What we do is focus on students grades nine through twelve, usually more so 10th, 11th, sometimes 12th graders. We are in the business of helping kids explore from a career standpoint, explore what are the schools and all the colleges and universities that are going to be the best fit for them, whether it’s environmentally, financially, academically and then supporting them as they go through the vetting process, building their applications, test scores. Because, you know, college sometimes is a very black and white game and GPA, sat scores not only lead to acceptance, but then also scholarship money on the back end and then supporting them and their parents as they’re going through the financial aid process and then eventually until they make that decision to launch.
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Speaker 1
01:58
Awesome. I feel like, and I remember, you know, to date myself, 2006, going to college, it was just very random, like very influenced by adult figures in my life. Parents, you know, go to just go here, study this. So I had no clue what I was doing. I feel like I got extremely lucky. I fell into a lot of things. Now I feel like I’m in a position where I meant to do it, but it was just like a string of random chance and luck and hard work, obviously. But looking back, I would have loved to have someone tell me, hey, here’s what you do. So for the audience of our podcast and a lot of high net worth, high income earners, a lot of them are going to be planning for college or have kids going through this process.
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Speaker 1
02:46
So let’s just narrow this down to like, what are some, from all your experience, how many kids have you helped get into college at this point? Do you have statistics?
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Speaker 2
02:55
I do. So we launched October 2017. Over the six and a half years that we’ve supported students, we’ve, I believe, had 550 graduates.
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Speaker 1
03:08
And usually we have high school graduates.
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Speaker 2
03:10
High school graduates.
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Speaker 1
03:11
Okay.
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Speaker 2
03:11
Yes. Usually we hold a caseload of anywhere between 90 to 160 students, depending on how large our senior class is.
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Speaker 1
03:21
And you got a team, right? You’re not?
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Speaker 2
03:22
I have a team. I have a team, yes. So I am full time owner, operator, college planner. I have one full time college planner who is amazing. Honestly, I got so lucky finding her. And then I have a part time essay writer who helps all the kids do their revisions after essays are written. And then I just recently hired on a part time SaT prep instructor.
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Speaker 1
03:45
Awesome, awesome. So 550. So you obviously have a lot of perspectives. I want to just extract as much wisdom as we can from you. So out of this, what commonalities have you found? Like, if you were to. If, if someone wasn’t your client, you were just to give them, like, I don’t know, three, four, five tips of, like, hey, 80 20 analysis. I’m a huge believer in this. Like, if you folks, what’s the 20% of stuff that a junior or senior in high school could do that will make up 80% of the success they’re going to have at the next level?
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Speaker 2
04:17
To prepare for that, you touched on it kind of dating yourself going back to 2006. It is such a different game now. And 20 years ago, 18 years ago, whatever the number is, it was a much simpler process. You can apply to a college mid senior year. You can take your sats end of senior year, and in most cases, you’re still fine. Now it is so much more competitive. The students are smarter, they’re more driven. These colleges are getting insanely difficult to get into. So one of the biggest pieces of advice I would give is for parents and for students, you know, rising throughout high school. Do your research. You want to see what are the average statistics. So I am personally not a huge fan of an acceptance rate.
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Speaker 2
05:10
And that’s what everybody tends to go off of when they’re looking at what is the competitiveness of a school. And the reason I say that is because they’re very black and white numbers. It’s going to show that University of Tennessee has a 68% acceptance rate. So strong, but doable. And those numbers are not giving you what actually happens. So they’re showing that, okay, if 1000 kids apply, 680 get in, but we don’t know anything about those 680 students. So schools now are starting to promote what’s called a freshman profile. And it’s going to show you based on the students we most recently accepted, here is their average gpA. Here is their average SAT score. So then, as a parent and as a student, you can say, okay, their average GPA is a 4.3. I have a 3.7. Their average SAT score is 1320.
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Speaker 2
06:10
I have an 1100. Where do you fall within that window to be able to feel confident or comfortable with the idea of this? Is that target school that everybody talks about or what is a reach or what is a safety?
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Speaker 1
06:23
So that’s 68%. Are you saying people basically have a cheat sheet of, like, people that know they’re not going to be accepted? Like, already know, so they’re not even going to apply?
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Speaker 2
06:31
Is that essentially if you do your research? So that’s what we do. So I would never be the one to tell a kid, this is not going to work out for you, but I want you to have all the information to educate them, to make an informed decision, because I don’t want you to fall in love with a Range Rover when you can only afford a Honda. There’s no point. So the numbers are the numbers.
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Speaker 1
06:52
Gotcha. That’s mind blowing. I remember. Just a quick story. We’ll try to. You know, I. Yeah, as humble as possible. I got accepted, I think, in the most colleges I applied for, but I remember case Western was, like, the best one. I was excited and, like, you know, they offered me a decent amount of money and just for, like, religious reasons, like, they played basketball on Sundays, so my parents were against that, but like that. So I ended up going to Geneva, super religious school. But I remember I was adamantly against going to Geneva. And so I wrote the essay in, like, 30 seconds, and I was like, I want to, like, sabotage my chances of getting accepted here. And they, like, immediately accepted and basically gave me almost a full ride. But it’s funny. A totally different game back then than.
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Speaker 2
07:33
It was so different. But I wrote my college essay in my home Ec class on paper with a pencil in March before I graduated. And back then, it was. It was common.
S
Speaker 1
07:46
I don’t think I could survive today’s competitive environment.
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Speaker 2
07:49
Now these. And that’s, again, you know, these are just tidbits. So much of it is educating yourself on how competitive these kids are now and how much these schools cost. So that is the one thing that, you know, I’ve seen when we are working with new clients, educating the parents on how much do these schools actually cost. So making them aware of how difficult these schools are to get into now. But then what are the price points? Because so many parents still have that mindset of, you know what? It’s 1987. You can mow lawns all summer to pay for fall tuition. Those days are long gone.
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Speaker 1
08:30
Our in state, that’s literally what my brother did.
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Speaker 2
08:32
Yeah. Our in state public schools, Pitt and Penn State, for example, since we live in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania’s in state tuition is very high compared to other states. So for a student in Pittsburgh who wants to go to Pitt and live on campus, they’re paying anywhere between 37 and 41,000 a year.
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Speaker 1
08:52
All in, like, tuition, fees, all room and board.
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Speaker 2
08:54
All tuition fees, room and board.
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Speaker 1
08:56
Before any scholarships or anything.
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Speaker 2
08:57
Before any scholarships.
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Speaker 1
08:59
That’s. That’s a big number.
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Speaker 2
09:00
It’s a big number. Now, when you start looking out of state and you’re getting into the out of state public schools, Ohio state, Virginia Tech, South Carolina, we’re at 50, 60 grand easy. And the problem is, and this is, again, where the research comes into play, you want to try to identify if the finances are important, who gives money and who does not, because sometimes schools are not as transparent as others. And trying to identify, okay, is this 60 a true 60?
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Speaker 1
09:32
Maybe it’s a 30 if you know what you’re doing.
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Speaker 2
09:34
Is this 60 a 30 with the right student? Right. The right stats at the right school.
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Speaker 1
09:40
Gotcha. Okay, so tip number one, just to summarize, it’s like, do a ton of research or team up with you, who has all this knowledge, so you can laser focus on what actually makes sense. Yeah. Okay, so, yeah, research is key. Research is key. Okay, so what’s. What will be, tip number two, I’m a senior and starting to work with you. How am I putting myself in the position for the best possible success?
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Speaker 2
10:10
Tip number two, and I’ve alluded to it, the competitiveness of these schools, really having the hard conversation with your students and as a family, identifying what is the most important thing as we gear up for post secondary education, and I personally ask this to all of my students I work with, and it’s a great conversation to have for anyone, sit down as a family and discuss what are the priorities for going to college. I try to lump them into, okay, so when you’re choosing a school, you really want to try to think big picture when you’re selecting your school. And hopefully prior to this point, you have explored careers, explored majors, pathways, because I think that is one of the most important factors in deciding what are the types of schools that you’re pursuing.
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Speaker 1
11:02
Wow. So just maybe a little bit of a side tangent here. I just remember when I was in senior of high school, I would basically just focus on sports and getting as high of a grade as possible. I had no inkling of thinking about the next stage of careers or major or anything like that. So how do you guide a senior in high school towards starting to think about like, putting on their big boy pants? Yeah. Cause I didn’t have any of that guidance. I didn’t seek it, but it wasn’t proactively given to me.
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Speaker 2
11:35
I don’t wanna say it’s difficult, but I try to be subtle with it because we want to identify what is the pathway. Also understanding that kids change their mind constantly and nobody has that crystal ball. What I try to at the very least do is identify a field, whether we’re using the disk assessment, the John Holland SDS code, one that actually has a really.
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Speaker 1
12:02
So wait, you’re doing the actual, like, the disassembly is something we did as like a firm, which was super helpful. It speaks to the culture, personalities, how everyone interacts. So you’re doing that for a high school kid?
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Speaker 2
12:12
We are doing it for the high school kid.
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Speaker 1
12:13
That’s crazy. So I imagine that probably eliminates like 90% of things that probably aren’t a good fit. Narrows it down.
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Speaker 2
12:20
At least it does narrow it down. We actually just started implementing this past year because we’ve used other resources in the past, but this is the one that we’re kind of targeting now. Because in addition to, you know, the careers and things that it spits out, it really gives you that personality of a student. And, you know, what is their leadership style, what is their communication style? And the reason I think that’s so important is, and if you can identify a field, whether it’s stem, medicine, business, you don’t have to get into the nitty gritty of I want to do finance or I want to do HR. Business is business. Initially you’re going into a business school or you’re going into a college of arts and sciences. That should, in my opinion, dictate what are the schools you’re looking at.
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Speaker 2
13:05
Because, and we’ve talked about this before, doing that research from a salary standpoint, but then also from a pathway standpoint. And this is by no means disrespecting anybody you know, within the social sciences or within education, but those ceilings are usually on the lower end. So in my opinion, if you were going to be financially responsible, you are going to probably target schools that are going to be cheaper for these students not to be in an absurd amount of debt that they’ll never be able to dig themselves out of.
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Speaker 1
13:40
I was just looking at stats. So, like, average, this is on a education data.org comma, average student loan debt. This is 20, 21, 37. Over 37,000 federal, 54,000 private out of 45 million plus borrowers have student loan debt. 92% of them have federal debt, which obviously, you know, we know the interest rates are on that. But what’s staggering to me is 20 years after school, half of those people still have more than half of their debt. So you talk about being strapped for a long time. For a long time. I think that the education around, and we have these different figures, like your income, household income is 200 or 250. You shouldn’t have a house over 500,000. It’s two x or it’s 30% your net take home. And this isn’t like a bank’s gonna give you twice that.
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Speaker 1
14:34
But if you want to have a financial plan in place, you don’t feel house poor, and you’re able to fund your kids college and retire. It’s just simple math. So talking about school loan debt, you know, I always give advice because I’ve stressed, tested, and I’ve seen so many people forecast you graduate, forecast your income three years out. If you’re a social worker, maybe that’s 50. If you’re a CPA, pursuing your CPA, maybe it’s 100. If you’re a doctor, maybe that’s 300. You shouldn’t come out of school with more than one time, one x. So one times that amount of school. So if you’re a social worker, you should be aiming for no more than 50.
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Speaker 1
15:07
If you’re a doctor, you should be aiming no more than and 300 if you’re a primary carer, 500 if you’re a surgeon, which I know can be tough. But do you agree with those figures? Are those figures doable? Cause a lot of people look at me like, what? That’s impossible.
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Speaker 2
15:24
I personally think whatever data you pulled up, and now I know it’s credible data and it’s nationwide data.
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Speaker 1
15:31
But again, that includes all the a ton of kids that are getting fully paid for, obviously. So excuse it. So what do you actually see out there?
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Speaker 2
15:38
All right, so just to paint a picture. So, again, where we live, our in state, the cheapest in state schools that a student can go to in Pennsylvania, outside of doing a community college route, for starters. Slippery rock. IuP, cal U. They cost for, let’s say, sticker price, tuition fees, room and board, about $22,000 a year. So our cheapest option is just shy of 90,000.
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Speaker 1
16:05
For four years.
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Speaker 2
16:06
For four years. Now they will give money, financial aid, you know, depending on. That’s a whole other issue with, you.
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Speaker 1
16:11
Know, how if you want to take a couple of victory laps, you’re way over six figures.
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Speaker 2
16:15
You’re way over six figures.
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Speaker 1
16:17
It’s crazy.
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Speaker 2
16:18
So, for the families that, you know, are fortunate enough to be able to help their students out by all means. But what I would say is, even though if you have the money, doesn’t necessarily mean you have to spend it.
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Speaker 1
16:27
Right.
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Speaker 2
16:28
Because if you’re doing your research and you are identifying, okay, this is a school that we like, and then this is where I think one of my biggest values comes in. Not only making it less stressful for the families, but identifying, okay, you like school a. They cost $40,000 a year. Competitive. To get into competitive usually leads to no scholarships Penn State, because they.
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Speaker 1
16:54
They don’t have to Penn State. They’re gonna get their whatever, their gonna.
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Speaker 2
16:57
Get their hundred thousand applicants and I. People are dying to pay full bout for it. So they give very little.
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Speaker 1
17:05
Why, though? Because they can’t even win a. They can’t even get into the CFP. I’m just kidding.
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Speaker 2
17:11
It’s.
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Speaker 1
17:11
But now that they’re expanding the, what.
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Speaker 2
17:13
Twelve teams I think it is this year, how many?
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Speaker 1
17:16
How. I’m joking, but I. Joking aside, how many kids decide based upon two factors, history of sports in their family or just parental influence? 80% are based on those factors.
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Speaker 2
17:30
I would say 80.
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Speaker 1
17:30
I went to Alabama. You’re going to.
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Speaker 2
17:32
80% are targeting. I want the big football tailgate, I want the sorority life. I want that experience.
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Speaker 1
17:40
It’s an expensive party.
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Speaker 2
17:41
I mean, it’s an expensive.
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Speaker 1
17:42
It’s going to be a hell pay for your kids car and they can drive there from.
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Speaker 2
17:46
It’ll be a heck of four years. Yeah, but that’s honestly what so many kids are chasing now. And, you know, I get it. It’s amazing. But make it make sense because there are schools like Penn State where if you’re not overly concerned about reputation, the kid who gets into Penn State could probably go to a Ohio university that has a similar feel for 22 with strong stats. So 37 versus 22.
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Speaker 1
18:15
Gotcha.
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Speaker 2
18:15
That’s, you know, so out of the.
S
Speaker 1
18:17
550 kids that you’ve guided to, you know, post grad education, post high school. And is that mostly four year or do you do you also do trade schools and vast majority four year.
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Speaker 2
18:32
And I come from a counseling background. So even though my business is, I would say, fully based around helping kids.
S
Speaker 1
18:39
For your bachelor’s college. Yeah.
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Speaker 2
18:41
I will be the first to tell you not everybody needs to go to college.
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Speaker 1
18:45
Yeah.
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Speaker 2
18:46
There I’ve had some that went through the process they’ve explored and ended up going to air force or ended up enlisting in the Navy or going and doing some sort of apprenticeship program.
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Speaker 1
18:58
So I mean, those people probably got the biggest value from you, even though they didn’t get what they were just the guidance to say, hey, you’re avoiding $100,000 trap that it’s not meant for you was probably the biggest win.
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Speaker 2
19:11
My big thing is like, yes, I wondez. You know, all of my kids to, you know, go to the school that they want to go to or get the money that they deserve, but ultimately it is putting yourself in a position to do what makes the most sense for you. And for those kids, it was avoiding the debt. Going, doing an 18 month apprenticeship program, eventually making 90 grand as a 20 year old kid with no debt.
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Speaker 1
19:36
It’s incredible. I mean, it’s even 90 grand with no debt. I, if you want to go live by yourself, I mean, it’s.
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Speaker 2
19:43
Oh, it’s stupid money for a kid.
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Speaker 1
19:44
Yeah, I mean that’s, it’s. But if you think about like in Pittsburgh, 90,000, here’s my nerd. That’s probably, you know, 4800 a month and, you know, let’s say rents, 1502 thousand. But it’s still, it’s totally doable. But it’s not at, you’re not living a lavish, like a lavish lifestyle yet you take a school loan payment and it’s a thousand or 2000 a month. I mean, you’re right back into college after you graduate. You have roommates, you’re maybe going back to your live with your parents to get that school loan debt paid off. So the decisions obviously you make before college will drastically affect really the rest of your life in some capacity.
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Speaker 2
20:25
Very much so. I was working with a client last night, actually, and, you know, were going through the financing portion of, you know, what we helped them with and I, they are contributing to a large portion of their child’s tuition and fees, but we still had a balance of about 14,000. And these rates, obviously people are pretty aware these rates are high. And these banks and lenders, they make it so easy for a student to get a school loan cosign or whatever, but you’re at a seven to 18% interest rate. And for the people who are not aware, and you’re just worried about paying the tuition bill in August, like, you’ll sign almost anything, and at 12%, you’re gonna get killed.
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Speaker 1
21:13
Yeah. It’s every six years that balance is doubling.
S
Speaker 2
21:16
Yeah, it’s awful.
S
Speaker 1
21:18
Out of the 550 put you on the spot here, kids that you’ve helped graduate high school into a college acceptance, do you have any figures on, like, what their school loans balances are? And the reason I ask is, you blew my mind the first time we talked a couple years ago. You’re like, how many scholarships that are out there that you go after that I just had no idea about?
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Speaker 2
21:39
There’s a lot. If you put the time and you dedicate the diligence to it, there’s money out there. It’s not as easy as it once was. I remember back in our day, if you have red hair or if you’re left handed, you know there’s. There’s money out there. I think those pots have dried up a little bit. They are now way more targeted to. This one’s for a student going into nursing. This one is for a female going into the engineering field. So there’s still money out there. It’s just you have to take the time to identify which ones you’re eligible for and then put the time in to write the essays and actually grind it out.
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Speaker 1
22:19
Gotcha. Okay. All right, so we’ve covered education is key, personality set, getting into the right field. Do you have stats? I can look it up as well. How many times someone changes their major?
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Speaker 2
22:33
I do.
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Speaker 1
22:33
Throughout their college. How many is that?
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Speaker 2
22:35
I can’t quote exactly where it came from, but it was a credible source, I promise. I believe it was. 80% of college undergraduates changed their majority once, at least once. And out of those 80%, I believe the average amount was, like, three to five times a lot. Way more than I ever expected.
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Speaker 1
22:55
There’s more decision with social media. We want stuff like the boom, boom. It’s like decision fatigue is like the big. It’s like an epidemic. Yeah, it’s crazy. We didn’t have that back. I mean, I didn’t even. I don’t think I have a cell phone in college. Maybe a flip phone.
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Speaker 2
23:09
See, I got my first. No, it wasn’t even a flip phone. Remember the old Nokias with the. The little block?
S
Speaker 1
23:14
Yeah.
S
Speaker 2
23:14
That was junior year. I remember getting that.
S
Speaker 1
23:16
There was no TikTok on there, was there?
S
Speaker 2
23:18
These kids are ruined.
S
Speaker 1
23:20
It’s crazy. But, I mean, it’s so, I mean, there’s good that comes out of it. But I think with anything you have to navigate, you know, when things are, a lot of strengths can become our biggest weaknesses, right? And so now we have so many options. Options are good, but if they overwhelm you to the point where you’re changing your major three or four times, you don’t know what school, obviously, that can set you back for some people, probably a lifetime wondering what their calling is or what their purpose is, etcetera. So your process obviously, proactively tries to address that as much as possible. So do you have any more tips? And once you’re done with the tips, I want to talk about what are the, like, what are the biggest mistakes that people can avoid, parents or kids during this process.
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Speaker 2
24:00
Tip number one, research vet have those difficult conversations. Tip number two, everything happens so much sooner. So again, you know, Matt and I spoke about, you know, handling all this college stuff, you know, early senior year, middle end of senior year. By the time senior year comes for most of these kids, truthfully, the damage is done. Good, bad or ugly. Now, there’s plenty of ways to skin a cat. So I’m not saying, you know, the way we do it is the way to do it, but be proactive. So for all of our rising seniors, we have 87 rising seniors by September 15. Applications built essays written applications submitted to first and foremost meet any of these early action deadlines. Maintain the application portal, so ensure student academic reports are submitted or built letters of rec transcripts, honors college applications.
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Speaker 2
25:03
But then for the kids to be able to actually enjoy 12th grade, they’re busier than ever now. So, you know, to expect a kid to go to school for 8 hours, go to practice or work or club, music, band, whatever, you get home at 07:00 at night and then you have to go write your college essay. It’s a big ask for sure. So really try to be proactive to get ahead of the game, but then also try to enjoy the process.
S
Speaker 2
25:28
And, you know, so many families talk about, you know, senior year, it is the most stressful time because they’re badgering their kids to get things done and kids don’t want to listen to them get it all done now over the summer when it’s, when you have the time to do it and then you can actually enjoy the last nine months with your kid.
S
Speaker 1
25:49
It’s great. So do you find that, is there a huge difference between, because you start working with some people as a freshman.
S
Speaker 2
26:01
In high school, right I do.
S
Speaker 1
26:02
Do you find a major difference between someone starting in your program in 9th grade versus someone waiting till that senior year?
S
Speaker 2
26:08
I do. And it’s the research and the vetting that happens in between there. So for a senior, yeah, we will help a senior. But again, there’s only so many hours in the day and there’s only so much time to be able to identify what are the right fits. It is at that point, okay, what do we want to do? What are the schools that offer what we want to do? And then looking atmosphere, price point. But as a freshman, sophomore, junior, senior, we are within those two and a half, three years, we are confirming you want to go into medicine. Okay. Which type of medicine you might want to start as a doctor, but then realize I’d actually rather go the physician assistant route because I don’t want to sacrifice eleven years of training and education. So I would say more.
S
Speaker 2
26:56
So the confirmation of what they want to do and where they want to go happens.
S
Speaker 1
27:00
Awesome, John. This is awesome. So I’m just trying to think because you have what other people have is like, very caring parents that would do anything for their kids, and the kids have all their. Their friends at school. The problem is with that is there you kind of become the average of people you surround yourself with. And, you know, obviously people you love tend to be extremely biased. What you have is unbiased, just facts, like logical information. So I just want to rapid fire some questions at you, if that’s it. And just. I don’t need exact answers. Just give me, like, estimates. So, let me think. First question. So someone has a. So, first of all, SAT scores. When I was graduating, there was like three things, but they were like. They ignored part of it.
S
Speaker 1
27:50
So what’s, like, what’s the SAt level right now?
S
Speaker 2
27:53
SAT, there’s.
S
Speaker 1
27:55
What’s the highest score you can get? And is that three parts now or still two?
S
Speaker 2
27:59
Two parts. So this is the one thing that’s a. That’s a big change, even from last year. So the SAt is now totally digital. Two sections. It’s broken up into four modules, but there’s two sections. There’s a reading comprehension, a vocabulary, and then a grammar piece, and then the second half of it is math.
S
Speaker 1
28:20
Okay.
S
Speaker 2
28:21
So it went from a three and a half hour exam. Now it’s down to, like, 2 hours and ten minutes. So it’s still scored the same, but it’s vastly different from how it used to be.
S
Speaker 1
28:30
Okay, so I want to. I’m a freshman, and, you’re sitting down with me. I’m the parent. I want my daughter. I’m like, I’m set. I want an Ivy league. Let’s go. Super. You can feel I’m like a crazy parent. You’re telling me what your kid needs to have. What sat, what kind of outside? Like, what are three or four check marks I need to have for an iv?
S
Speaker 2
28:52
Okay, so you need to max out the rigor at your high school, every honors, every AP course from offered from now until you graduate, you need, if you’re submitting test scores. And Ivy leagues have reported that they are now going to be requiring scores. So to be competitive, 1520 to 1570.
S
Speaker 1
29:17
So basically you’re saying I need to be perfect. Not me. I need to be my brother.
S
Speaker 2
29:21
You need to be perfect.
S
Speaker 1
29:22
Who? I think he got it, like, almost a perfect on this. It’s crazy.
S
Speaker 2
29:26
But in addition to that, he took.
S
Speaker 1
29:27
All the smart jeans away because he’s a little bit older than me, but.
S
Speaker 2
29:30
You’Re probably taller than him, so it’s a tiny bit.
S
Speaker 1
29:32
Yeah, but. All right, cool. So either do outside activities come into play at all, like how involved I was with sports, how involved I was with, or is for an Ivy League. Is it just like purely academics?
S
Speaker 2
29:45
It is. It is not, sadly. And I went to a seminar, it.
S
Speaker 1
29:49
Is not taken into effect or it’s not taken into consideration?
S
Speaker 2
29:52
It is very much taken into consideration.
S
Speaker 1
29:54
Gotcha. So I only need, I mean, perfect. I need to, like, you need do everything basically for.
S
Speaker 2
30:00
And, you know, everything rolls downhill. So a student who, you know, had a four or five GPA and had a 14. 1450 ten years ago was very much at an Ivy League level. I think. Now these kids, they’re. It’s an international pool. So they are not only getting the best kids in the US, they’re getting the best kids in the world. So the most outstanding grades you can get test scores almost perfect. The days of being in key club and being on the basketball team or being in the marching band, they’re a dime a dozen. These kids are spending their summers volunteering at the UPMC Cancer center doing cancer research, or they are doing research to be a part of the publication.
S
Speaker 1
30:46
So they’re not only perfectly smart, they’re perfect human beings is what you’re saying.
S
Speaker 2
30:50
It is on a whole other level.
S
Speaker 1
30:51
Gotcha.
S
Speaker 2
30:52
These kids and the parents need to know this. These kids that have the dreams of Ivy League MIT, Stanford, Johns Hopkins, you were living a life dedicated to appeasing that school, which may or may not happen.
S
Speaker 1
31:08
Gotcha. But your second backup choice will be a good. It should be a case western or a brown or something like that.
S
Speaker 2
31:15
Well, and the thing now is, like I said, everything kind of rolls downhill. So, you know, the kid ten years ago who had the stats to get an iv, they didn’t have the activities. So those kids that have the four twos in the 1480s, not the 1520s, they’re going down to the next tier, which is the Villanova’s and the CMUs. And then they’re pushing those kids down to where the u Michigans would be in the Wisconsin’s. And these schools that you wouldn’t expect to be insanely competitive are now almost top tiers, incredibly difficult to get into.
S
Speaker 1
31:53
Okay, so I’m coming, so. All right, I give up. I’m not. No, I’m just kidding. Hopefully my daughter’s smart enough to be obvious. Who knows? But I just want to enjoy life. But anyway, so. And be productive citizen.
S
Speaker 2
32:03
That’s what’s most important.
S
Speaker 1
32:04
That’s most important. First and foremost. And to add value to others. But. So I am. These are just rapid fire questions. I just wanna hear your gut responses and you can correct yours. So I have. I’m middle of the. What’s middle of the road? SAT schools. Like a score. Like, what is that, a twelve? 1312 is. Okay.
S
Speaker 2
32:29
Twelve is, you know, average.
S
Speaker 1
32:31
Now, sadly, I’m coming in 1200. I generally know I don’t want to be a doctor, but I have no idea really what I want to do. And I’m asking you geographically. I’ll go anywhere in America, and I don’t have much financial help from my parents. Okay, you have to give me just three basic recommendations on the. Hey, this school will cover. It’s got a good business school. You could be X, Y or Z. They’ve got the basic cover. What are the three best balanced choices from finance, economic perspective? They’re also safe. We’re going to have a good culture there. What would be your three recommendations?
S
Speaker 2
33:13
Something within science. 1200 sat. What’s the GPA?
S
Speaker 1
33:18
We’ll say like a three. What’s that? What’s an average? Okay.
S
Speaker 2
33:23
All right. Anywhere in the country. That one’s tough. You gotta give me. Give me a region.
S
Speaker 1
33:28
Okay. East Coast.
S
Speaker 2
33:29
East Coast. Ohio University is big, but not too big. Very cute. Prototypical college town. Gorgeous. Out of state for us. But with those statistics, we should be on the higher end of their scholarship. Tier I 36, for starters, probably turns into 25, 26 after some after. After merit baseball.
S
Speaker 1
33:54
After some stuff. Yeah.
S
Speaker 2
33:56
So I think that is a great value.
S
Speaker 1
34:00
And what could I go study? Okay. Is good business school.
S
Speaker 2
34:03
Business is solid. They have actually a pretty cool aviation program.
S
Speaker 1
34:09
Okay.
S
Speaker 2
34:10
General sciences are all fine unless you get into something niche. And one of my big questions when you’re starting is you want to roll in or out? Engineering, nursing, architecture, because those are the three you have to go to the right place, typically are not offered everywhere.
S
Speaker 1
34:28
Okay. How important is it if you’re in one of those three, to have a top program for as far as getting a good offer job wise, after?
S
Speaker 2
34:37
I think that’s the million dollar question. Everybody’s gonna have a different perspective, in my opinion, and I could be wrong. I think a nurse is a nurse, I think an engineer is an engineer, and I think an architect is an architect. Everybody’s gonna have their own opinion on it.
S
Speaker 1
34:53
Yeah, I agree. I think. Cause me personally, I think, like, no, I love them. I call it was great, blah. But I mean, I probably apply less than 5% of what I learned there on a daily basis.
S
Speaker 2
35:03
I think, personally, I think it is what the kid does with the opportunities presented. The name of your school. Yes. Will it give you network and connections? The name of your school might even get you an interview. But at the end of the day, I think the person gets the job.
S
Speaker 1
35:22
Yeah. It’s you experience. You can build your own network. You can work your way into anything, you can work your way out of anything.
S
Speaker 2
35:28
That’s kind of my approach to it, at least.
S
Speaker 1
35:29
Gotcha. Okay. I’m in financial ruinous. I’m the parent. My kids were middle of the road. No idea what we want to do. What are you know, what are you recommending? Are we doing two years of community college, then going to two years after? Are we going still going to Ohio? Like, what would be a good pathway there?
S
Speaker 2
35:56
I think it depends on what type of experience the kid is willing to have. And so much of that now, granted, again, the community college route is incredibly underused. And if you are committed to being financially responsible with this college thing, for a student who doesn’t know what they want to do, they are not big on the Penn State party, they’re not big on the sorority life. All of the perks that come with a four year college, if that’s not important to them, community college is 1000% the way to go.
S
Speaker 1
36:30
If I were to go do it again, and I wouldn’t change a thing, don’t get me wrong. I’m just saying from all the perspective I would do, here’s what I would do. I would do two years, and this again, if I didn’t play basketball. I couldn’t have done this because of basketball, but I would have done two years of community college and done as many internships as humanly possible during those two years and just taking it seriously enough to get good grades to carry over. But everything I’ve ever learned is on job experience because, like, I was told I should be an accountant. And then, like, my least favorite classes in college, pretty much the only not a I got in college was auditing. I hated it.
S
Speaker 2
37:10
We let you manage our money.
S
Speaker 1
37:11
No, auditing is, like, just boring, like corporate stuff. But literally, I went and took a job in auditing. I was miserable for a year. So I would have never done that if I had simply, like, taken my time at intern. But all these voices were around me like, oh, Deloitte is like, you know, that’s the best job offer ever. And it was. Deloitte’s a great company, but it just wasn’t for me. Wasn’t for you, it wasn’t for me. It wasn’t my personality. It wasn’t. And so all of those pain points and, like, years of wasted could have been fixed. If I had just gone and, like, experienced one day, just one day or even 1 hour, even 1 minute of auditing in a room, I would have known. I never would have done that. But let alone I accepted a job.
S
Speaker 1
37:50
I’m just going on a rant right now.
S
Speaker 2
37:52
But.
S
Speaker 1
37:53
But it’s the reality. I think a lot of kids do that.
S
Speaker 2
37:55
Well, and to your point, you know, going back to how many kids changed their major, you know, they’re told, oh, you’re good with numbers, so go be an accountant. And, you know, I think the reason that the major change rate is so high is because, you know, they’re told, or the assumption is, I should go do this thing. First semester. Yeah, you’re taking your basic business courses. Second semester, you’re in your first accounting course. You realize, oh, no, this is not anything what I thought it was. I’m going to switch. They have to switch into something. So then they have to switch again. And once you get to a point where, you know, if you change your major early on, you know, 1st, 2nd, 3rd semester, as long as you’re not too deep into the curriculum, it’s salvageable.
S
Speaker 2
38:39
But for the students that are switching junior year, then you’re tacking on another semester, another year. And that’s when it becomes an issue, no question versus costly, being able to explore it. Go do a job shadow, see it firsthand and then, you know, kind of what you’re expected to get into.
S
Speaker 1
38:57
Yeah.
S
Speaker 2
38:59
Yeah.
S
Speaker 1
38:59
I mean, honestly, like, it’s a really expensive if someone just go into, you know, picking on Penn State, and it’s a great school, great parties, great football, great, you know, that’s an expensive party if you have no scholarships. I mean, go to community college and give your kid ten grand so they can go there every weekend, get them. Buy them an Airbnb for like eight months, and they can spend every weekend there if they get a 4.0. I’m just thinking out loud here. But anyways, no, I think it’s. College is obviously like a once in a lifetime experience. And not taking away from that. I’m just speaking from purely from a financial perspective. I think a lot of people, it’s not a.
S
Speaker 1
39:35
They go more for the name and then I see a lot of people come out of those four years, and that’s kind of like the high, the expectation. I love psychology. And then from there, it’s like, you know, dopamine hits the certain part of your brain and then, like, we can’t be happy unless we’re getting that. But that’s impossible now you’re in the real world and now you’re so let down. There’s a lot of. Again, I think it’s an epidemic because there’s not enough proactive advice given to kids going to that next level. And this. So just. I’m going to speak purely statistically, and this is probably going to upset people because everyone wants the best for their kids.
S
Speaker 1
40:10
But, I mean, studies have shown, like, you help your kids too much, it ends up hurting them, hurts their motivation, it hurts their success later in life. So this is the first time in history that a couple things have happened. So, first thing in. First time in history that, you know, people in their. So if we look at our parents when they were twenties and now this generation, their twenties, it’s the first time in history that people in their twenties now are less successful than their parents every time before.
S
Speaker 2
40:43
Interesting.
S
Speaker 1
40:43
Kids have been more financially successful than their parents. This is the first time in history that’s not the case. Well, you have to ask why is that? Well, it’s simple. I mean, people are riddled with school loans. Absolutely. Riddle school loans. And there’s so much decision fatigue and people are changing their minds every day that they can’t stay focused in a career. Our parents, it was pretty. They didn’t change their career path, they grinded it out.
S
Speaker 2
41:06
I mean, I don’t want to dive too deep in the Gen zs, but you know, the entitlement that a lot of them feel the feeling of I need to be fulfilled and I need to make an impact. And you know, the days of, you know, being with the company for 1020 years, I don’t think it happens anymore.
S
Speaker 1
41:27
Yeah. And so the other statistic I’m going to share is this is the first time in history in America this year, 2024 that there’s more people over the age of 65 in America than there are under 15. And so what that tells you a couple things. One, obviously people aren’t having kids, but if you look at where the money it flows, over 80% of wealth in America is with individuals over 65 because they’ve had the most time to accumulate it. So there’s actually a wealth. A lot of people as the generations pass on, there’s going to be a wealth transfer. But right now what’s actually happening is there’s a wealth transfer from people in their twenties to people in their sixties because of just being riddled with school loans and not making good financial choices.
S
Speaker 1
42:12
And I investing in maybe products that you don’t need. And the older people are own the stocks of those products so those driving the price. So it just, it’s just interesting statistics. I think the education, the literacy and the decisions, unfortunately we go through cycles where like I think, you know, for someone generation had it really hard their whole life is to make it easy for their kids and then those kids have it so easy that ends up creating a really hard life for their kids because they don’t do any planning and so good kind of goes in these generations. I think education, literacy and tough convert can fix so we can have a smoother and avoid those huge ups and huge downs in society.
S
Speaker 2
42:49
It makes sense. I mean it’s again, it’s numbers. It’s Matt, you’re the numbers guy.
S
Speaker 1
42:53
Way too big of a nerd. Anyway, so I’m trying to think of other wisdom I can extract from you. John. This has been super amazing so far. So what business schools, let’s say in that like top third quartile. So I’ve got an sat of like 1300 GPa of let’s say three nine. I played one sport, volunteered a couple times. I’m very sure I want to go into business school. Okay, how important top three east coast.
S
Speaker 2
43:26
How important are the finances?
S
Speaker 1
43:31
It’s on the scale, but it’s not the only scale. I want to have fun. Half of it’s planned for my parents. I want to make a good choice, but I also do want to enjoy that four year experience at college. I’m not doing community school that’s off the table. That four year going to football games, I’m playing intramurals. I want to have a good experience. I also want to come out with a very good chance of a good job offers right away.
S
Speaker 2
43:56
University of South Carolina, dollar Moore School of Business. Fantastic. Up and coming. So it’s not insanely difficult to get into, but it’s getting there. Miami University of Ohio. A sleeper. Big D one school. Cute, adorable. Their farmer school of business is probably ranked within the top ten of public schools in the country. This might be a stretch, but University of Tennessee.
S
Speaker 1
44:29
Okay.
S
Speaker 2
44:29
They are another one that’s coming up strong.
S
Speaker 1
44:32
Interesting. Knoxville.
S
Speaker 2
44:34
Knoxville. It’s amazing how and you can.
S
Speaker 1
44:38
It’s a cool town. It’s a cool city.
S
Speaker 2
44:39
It’s a cool city. Everything within this collar stuff works within a trend.
S
Speaker 1
44:44
So you can see it’s kind of like housing markets. It can get real hot and then it can cool down.
S
Speaker 2
44:49
Yes.
S
Speaker 1
44:49
Interesting.
S
Speaker 2
44:50
Pay attention to college football. Who’s in the top ten? Who’s in the top 25?
S
Speaker 1
44:56
Does that help academics or hurt? It helps interest, which drives competition, which probably drives salaries of professors up, which drives money and all of the things.
S
Speaker 2
45:07
So Tennessee, you know, the past couple years, they’ve really made a splash with college football, college basketball, college football. And is it a coincidence that over the last four years, they’ve jumped from 40,000 applications a year to 80,000 interest, which when you have that spike in applications, you can afford to be more selective, which means you can then be. You can afford to be less generous with scholarship money because more people want to go there.
S
Speaker 1
45:32
I’m going to simplify this for my. For my daughter. We’re going. If this school didn’t make the NCAA tournament, it’s off the table.
S
Speaker 2
45:41
Yeah, I’m just kidding.
S
Speaker 1
45:42
But, I mean, it’s a deal breaker.
S
Speaker 2
45:43
Honestly.
S
Speaker 1
45:44
Football is probably more of a trend, but I’m just thinking basketball. That’s funny. I mean, there’s obviously no. Billions of dollars in the NIL is showing that just how much money there is. But that makes complete sense as far as where the money flows, is a big driver.
S
Speaker 2
46:01
It’s so much more of a business than what people realize.
S
Speaker 1
46:04
Okay. Just overall, it doesn’t matter, major, just in what you’ve seen. Top three overrated schools, given that, let’s say, the principles of the finances, the education, you’re going to receive and then job offers after. So not just waiting. All those considerations. It doesn’t have to be like an equal scale. And then top three underrated schools in America.
S
Speaker 2
46:27
Overrated? Again, these are just opinions. I think University of Maryland is overrated. I think it’s a good school.
S
Speaker 1
46:41
What is it? The terrapins.
S
Speaker 2
46:42
The terrapins. Good school. Overly, overly priced. You know, probably 55, 60,000. Very, very limited with scholarship money. Big ten school. So, you know, what I tell all my kids is if you want to go to Maryland, go to Penn State. Similar. Feel closer. You’ll spend half the money. I don’t think that’s worth it. Overrated. From the elements that probably are most important. Alabama. So a lot of people are chasing the Alabama train for obvious reasons, but if you’re a very high flying student, you can get a lot of scholarship money. It’s not a difficult school to get into, so it predominantly attracts kids who are on the lower end academically. But they’re gonna pay 55,000 a year. And the third overrated school.
S
Speaker 1
47:43
We’re not talking sports here. We’re talking academics.
S
Speaker 2
47:46
Talking academics. University of Miami.
S
Speaker 1
47:53
Interesting.
S
Speaker 2
47:54
University of Miami. Yes. It’s a great school. I wouldn’t go there for anything other than something within science, healthcare. I think that’s their bread and butter. But when you’re at a $95,000 price point with very little money per year, get out of here on everything. Holy. 95 and good school.
S
Speaker 1
48:16
And again, just to clarify, we’re talking bang for your buck.
S
Speaker 2
48:18
Bang for your buck reputation. Yeah.
S
Speaker 1
48:20
If money is irrelevant to you’re gonna get a good education there. But if we’re talking about the average.
S
Speaker 2
48:25
Correct.
S
Speaker 1
48:25
Yeah.
S
Speaker 2
48:26
With all these factors, I don’t think anything warrants $95,000 a year. Now, these are numbers for parents and families who are not going to qualify for any true. Need financial aid.
S
Speaker 1
48:39
Gotcha. Okay. Okay. Top three. Underrated.
S
Speaker 2
48:43
Underrated.
S
Speaker 1
48:47
Give it again. Given the factors of bang for your Buckley acceptance rates.
S
Speaker 2
48:53
Underrated, job wise, after Florida State.
S
Speaker 1
48:56
Okay.
S
Speaker 2
48:57
Now, it’s on every ranking. It’s on every reputation. But not, as many people realize how good of a school it is insanely hard to get into. And it is constantly ranked on the list for the best value universities. So just to paint a picture, average.
S
Speaker 1
49:16
Snubbed. Undefeated average.
S
Speaker 2
49:17
Yeah.
S
Speaker 1
49:18
Well, that quarterback goes down. I need to stop talking about sports anyways. Go ahead.
S
Speaker 2
49:22
Average student who gets in four to four six GPA, 1350 SAT score. They are a public school out of state, but they will cost about $29,000 a year.
S
Speaker 1
49:34
That’s it. So you’re surrounding yourself with geniuses for pennies. Pennies, comparatively speaking.
S
Speaker 2
49:41
Correct. So underrated from, I would say, an awareness standpoint. Not as many people realize how good for. That is one of the best bang for your box.
S
Speaker 1
49:50
Okay.
S
Speaker 2
49:52
Another underrated pit, which is ironic. So a lot of the kids.
S
Speaker 1
50:01
Now, you said how expensive it is, but it’s that good.
S
Speaker 2
50:04
It is expensive, but, you know, for where we live. We live in Pittsburgh, so it’s in our backyard. So people underestimated how good of a school it is academically. So it is on every top public school in the country, east coast ranking scale. Now, I think it’s, you know, too much for what it is, but a lot of them are. Pitt is incredibly underrated. Strong science, strong engineering, business, and Indiana University in Bloomington, underrated.
S
Speaker 1
50:43
Great school. Parents weather.
S
Speaker 2
50:45
Another Kelley school of business is now businesses. They’re bread and butter. But again, there’s some money at stake, but it’s a great school. Underrated, I think.
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Speaker 1
50:55
Gotcha. Okay. Money is absolutely no issue. And your. You. The. Your kid wants to go to Pittsburgh. Again, money. It just. Let’s just say it’s. It’s free, and you can get anywhere you want in Pittsburgh. Business. Where you sending your kid in Pittsburgh.
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Speaker 2
51:18
A school in Pittsburgh?
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Speaker 1
51:19
Mm . Business school. Over CMU?
S
Speaker 2
51:30
Yeah.
S
Speaker 1
51:32
Okay.
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Speaker 2
51:33
I think.
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Speaker 1
51:33
Now, what majors would you pick a CMU over?
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Speaker 2
51:36
Anything. Stem.
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Speaker 1
51:37
Okay.
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Speaker 2
51:38
Engineering, robotics, computer science. Any. Anything there, I think, is. Is a no brainer.
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Speaker 1
51:45
CMU. Okay.
S
Speaker 2
51:46
CMU.
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Speaker 1
51:47
Interesting.
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Speaker 2
51:47
Not saying that, you know, is pit better than CMU? No, but I just feel like there’s. There’s something about the connections you can get at Pita with the network.
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Speaker 1
51:58
Interesting. Okay, well, John, anything I asked. I didn’t ask today that I should have asked. You think it’s important for the audience to hear with the. Again, my goal is to just extract all the info I can out of you.
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Speaker 2
52:11
The one thing I would add is, you know, every. And we’ve touched on it, you know, find what makes sense for your family, your dynamic. The one thing that I think I’ve seen way too often that can put a lot of these kids in a bad situation is when their parents are vicariously living through them. And what I mean by that is there’s a lot of families that. And most of them are well off, truly, because the business that I own, it’s for profit, so it is parent paid, and most of them have the means to support their kids financially, partially or fully. Partially or fully, yeah. At least to pay for me to be able to give them the support. And there’s a.
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Speaker 2
52:58
There’s a spectrum, you know, people who have a ton of money and people who do not, and the parents who would have loved to have that Alabama experience are the ones pushing their kids to go to Alabama and being okay with them taking out 200,000 in student loans. And I think that is the most devastating part, versus a parent that, you know, doesn’t care about, you know, their kid having the experience of a lifetime for four years because they understand the impact that all this has. So, you know, if I can give any advice, don’t live vicariously through your kids. Don’t allow them to chase the four year Miami dream unless you are okay with spending $500,000 a year or $500,000 for a four year degree and, you know, really have those hard conversations.
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Speaker 1
53:50
Great advice. Great advice. We try to have those as well as proactively as possible, but it’s as, you know, having kids hit differently, you just want to do anything you possibly can for them.
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Speaker 2
54:02
But I get it.
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Speaker 1
54:03
It’s great. Until again, that strengthen. You got to make sure it’s a strength that it doesn’t turn into a weakness.
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Speaker 2
54:09
Right.
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Speaker 1
54:09
So. Well, John, thank you so much for joining. I’m sure there’s going to be incredible wisdom for all of our listeners.
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Speaker 2
54:15
Always a pleasure.
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Speaker 1
54:16
Yeah, absolutely.
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Speaker 2
54:16
See you.
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Speaker 1
54:17
Thanks again. Thanks for tuning in to our podcast. Hopefully you found this helpful. Really hope this is as beneficial and impactful to as many people across the nation as possible. So hit the follow button, make sure to rate the podcast, and please share with any friends or family members that would also find this beneficial. Thank you very much.
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